Acoustic guitar techniques

[Andrew07]

Anyone care to share their acoustic guitar techniques?

I used to use an SM81 through a Great River MP-2NV about two or three feet back level with the guitar pointed at the twelfth(i just forgot how to spell twelfth and had to look it up on dictionary.com how lame is that) fret.

Lately I've been using an Audio Technica 4033 thru the GR about a foot or less away by the twelfth fret pointed slightly toward the bridge.

The other night I tried using a Royer R121 to record this guy's kick-ass $3000 classical guitar and it sounded great. Really **** and deep maybe even a little dark. However, in the mix it just wasn't cutting through enough so I put up my Studio Projects C1 which is really bright, and it fit in the mix nicely.

[dach]

I record alot of ac gtr... each gtr is a totally different beast. One that I record everyday is a Goodall cedar/koa which is VERY bright and clear tonally. Put it up against others- Martins/etc. and the others sound like they are full of cotton.... However, that Martin/sprucey type of sound is the one our ears are most familiar with. I approach each type totally different and hopefully in the proper context of how it will be used in the arrangement/mix.

Don't get stuck reading these books on how to mic stuff. The 12fret can be a good place to start but depending on the arrangement, placed under the guitar body with some shelving and notch can be the ticket. Point it at or around the bridge. Don't forget the frets which generate harmonics 12, 9, 7, 5, 4, 3... these places have their own "sound" on each guitar... their own relationship of hi's vs los and mid concentration. The sound will sound "harder" at some locations... the bass/lo mids may seem more in phase at certain places... don't even be shy about trying a mic 2'' from the 3'rd-4th fret or so....

I personally think it's essential to take advantage of these locations when doing multiple overdubs of the same guitar... it can give each track it's own personality, degree of aggression or lack of, etc... Sometimes the timbre in which you think will work well in a track can be misleading... don't be scared of adding or cutting Hi's/Lo's... get the mids right for the part and the rest should follow...

>>>The other night I tried using a Royer R121 to record this guy's kick-ass $3000 classical guitar and it sounded great. Really **** and deep maybe even a little dark. However, in the mix it just wasn't cutting through enough so I put up my Studio Projects C1 which is really bright, and it fit in the mix nicely.<<<

If you add some Hi end with a nice eq I bet the Royer would have SMOKED the C1... Those Royers are damn nice.... Never used a C1 but I'm naturally skeptical... sorry... I'm old....

[brandondrury]

Amazing advice, Dach. Keep them coming.

Brandon

[dach]

All that being said, that weird stuff really applies to me micing ME which has taken a very loooong time to learn how to do and is a pain in the ass...

On the occassions when I'm tracking a group of musicians, I go for the "blend"... which means I don't use a lot of special techniques... a little bit of shelving or notching may be required... sue me.... I'm not working in a space that allows me to get perfect results so I sort of improvise every once in a while. Doing overdubs on group sessions can get more creative but then again, I just want it to be able to have it's own space and cut through... quick, simple and easy.

[brandondrury]

I'm not working in a space that allows me to get perfect results

Going back to this elusive "mojo" thing that I'm trying to understand (maybe it's right in front of my face and I'm just not seeing it) I have a question. How "not perfect" is your space? Do you think your "not perfect" space effects mojo as much as your high end mics and pres? Just curious.

I've pretty much concluded that my room is 90% of my problems. I was just wanted your opinon on the room's effect on mojo. Thanks Dach.

Brandon

[Andrew07]

Thanks for your input, Dach. The thing I usually have a problem with when recording acoustic guitar is I do everything in my house, so I have the computer in one room and the musician records in the other room. So they move around a lot and I can't see what the hell they're doing. It seems like EVERY person will position themselves so the mic is pointing directly at the sound hole. I did try using a Waves EQ when I used the Royer mic but to make it fit in the mix, but I had to boost about 8db. And lately I've been trying to use less EQ and compression and get things right while tracking, so I dont know...

On a completely diffferent note, what kind of EQ plug-ins are people using?

[brandondrury]

I want to hear about EQ. Would you mind starting a new thread?

Brandon

[dach]

>>>Going back to this elusive "mojo" thing that I'm trying to understand (maybe it's right in front of my face and I'm just not seeing it) I have a question. How "not perfect" is your space? Do you think your "not perfect" space effects mojo as much as your high end mics and pres? <<<

Here's what I call mojo... (take this as well as every other thing I say with a grain of salt. It's way easier to show someone than describe it in words... also there are many engineers MUCH better than I and people who will find fault with everything I say....that's why it's called opinion)

Let's say for example you take a very good musician with a very good instrument. Take a good mic pre and record that with every mic you can get your hands on... good ones...

after recording each of them, listen back... do any of them shine as being the "best performer or mate"? If so, then you know you are probably on to something... is it only a couple of degrees better or is it night and day? If it's night and day... great.... could you imagine it being even better? if so... you lose.... it's pretty much when you compare everything and then you go "Holy Shit!!!" not "Wow that's awesome", but "Holy Shit!!!"... then see if that "Holy Shit" applies to a variety of sources... mojo=magic.... When you find that mic with mojo, try it through a bunch of pres. This is how these guys really find their preferences for certain types of gear... experience with many, many types of gear under many circumstances. That being said, it may not be the right mic for that particular job but when you find something that is incredible on many sources, under many conditions, and FAR outperforms the others... has clarity, thickness, definition, 3d image.... that's what I call mojo.... this can apply to rooms, pre's guitars, really anything... It's all relative though.... Mojo can also be a set of circumstances that lead to something great/incredible...

The better your room is gives you the potential for much better recordings. however don't let that limit you. We all have known the guy with the 4 track that blows us all away. Instead of crying over it, I just keep on truckin'... the saying that comes to mind to sum this up is: "Be the Best You Can Be"... and hope the check clears...

[dach]

If you can't see what they are doing and don't have a camera/monitor/talkback setup kindly explain to them that the mic is positioned at that particular place, relative to them and their instrument for a reason.... because it sounds "good" or "right" there... not somewhere else. If they need to look around, kindly explain that the human neck is designed to rotate approximately 180 degrees, allowing them to look at other musicians or scan the area for potential danger, predators or even the lead guitar players hot girlfriend. Tell them that if they shift and move that the recording can and probably will be compromised... get them a pillow if they compalin their ass or back aches.... Explain that you are currently working on a patent for a laser guided mic stand that follows instrument movement but until you complete that project, they just need to STAY THE FUCK STILL. They'll either get it or they wont..... It's tough when you record people that think going into a studio automatically makes them great... it takes work and technique on both sides of the glass.

[WillMontgomery]

Although probably the completely wrong way to mic an acoustic guitar, I used to get a boom stand and point a 57 facing down over my right shoulder. I was always very happy with the sound that I achieved. Anyone else ever heard of miking like this?

[Deng]

Good stuff, definately taking that into mind next time.

-Deng

[DogpitStudios]

Although probably the completely wrong way to mic an acoustic guitar, I used to get a boom stand and point a 57 facing down over my right shoulder.? I was always very happy with the sound that I achieved.? Anyone else ever heard of miking like this?

I've actually heard of quite a few people talking about this technique with a condenser mic but there is no reason why a 57 wouldn't work too. Works on everything else.

Ben

[Deng]

The 57 is magic...

Was that the only mic you used when you did that?

-Deng

[brandondrury]

Although probably the completely wrong way to mic an acoustic guitar

Seriously, a micing technique is only wrong if the resulting tracks sound like shit.

I don't want to see anyone talking about "wrong" mic placement on my forums. I've seen other forums with this sort of bullshit. These misinformed bunch of bullies start telling everyone else that they are wrong and they need to do it X ways.

Thanks for the tip WillMontgomery, I'll try that sometime.

Brandon

[dach]

>>>Seriously, a micing technique is only wrong if the resulting tracks sound like shit. <<<

BINGO !

[DogpitStudios]

>>>Seriously, a micing technique is only wrong if the resulting tracks sound like shit.? <<<

BINGO !

I'm gonna have to second that.

Except add a little more...

Who said sounding like shit was a bad thing? Perfection is imperfection, ever heard that?

[Deng]

Perfection is whatever the fuck you want it to be...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in this case ear of the listener.

-Deng

[PhilB]

I've read elsewhere about combining the over the shoulder with the micing at 12th fret.

[brandondrury]

Who said sounding like shit was a bad thing?

I'm glad you corrected my poor articulation (that's the only big word I know).

Revised version.

"A micing technique only sucks if you don't like the sound you getting on your recording tracks. "

The only problem with this is I didn't get to use any 4 letter words.

Brandon

[kyleknapp]

I used to get a boom stand and point a 57 facing down over my right shoulder. I was always very happy with the sound that I achieved. Anyone else ever heard of miking like this?

Yes, I've heard of this technique, and have used it, though usually together with a mic pointed at the 12th fret. I think the idea is that putting a mic close to your ear approximates the sound that you hear while you're playing. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not...

[kyleknapp]

wow this is an old thread... wonder why I just noticed it...

[brandondrury]

I think the idea is that putting a mic close to your ear approximates the sound that you hear while you're playing. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not...

This is something that I've never really gotten to work for me. When I was at the Michael Wagener Workshop last year he had a Neumann head, which was a stereo mic designed to directly emulate the sound of the human hearing...more or less. It worked extremely well. I think it ran about $8,000 if my memory is correct. No other mic has worked that well for simulating what the human ear simulates.

Brandon

[DT Chris]

I used to use an SM81 through a Great River MP-2NV about two or three feet back level with the guitar pointed at the twelfth(i just forgot how to spell twelfth and had to look it up on dictionary.com how lame is that) fret.

Don't feel bad.. how many times in life will we use 'twelfth' anyway, nm typing that way? I usually type 12th fret..

If you can't see what they are doing and don't have a camera/monitor/talkback setup kindly explain to them that the mic is positioned at that particular place, relative to them and their instrument for a reason.... because it sounds "good" or "right" there... not somewhere else. If they need to look around, kindly explain that the human neck is designed to rotate approximately 180 degrees, allowing them to look at other musicians or scan the area for potential danger, predators or even the lead guitar players hot girlfriend. Tell them that if they shift and move that the recording can and probably will be compromised... get them a pillow if they compalin their ass or back aches.... Explain that you are currently working on a patent for a laser guided mic stand that follows instrument movement but until you complete that project, they just need to STAY THE FUCK STILL. They'll either get it or they wont..... It's tough when you record people that think going into a studio automatically makes them great... it takes work and technique on both sides of the glass.

LOL, I love it. Now you sound like a true professional.
I love people who say it how it is, and get the shit done. In the studio, I may be uncomfortable because I'm used to singing live, but I'm willing to listen and follow the studio engineer so we can get the best recording possible.

[kyleknapp]

how come you're always yelling, Chris? Maybe you should try meditation...

(just kidding, but everytime I see your avatar it startles me

[DT Chris]

What can I say? It's how I feel.