Acoustic Guitar Phasing

[brandondrury]

This is a spinoff from another thread.?

After ive recorded acoustic guitar, i inverted the phaze on 1 of the tracks to get it sounding better. Does anyone know how to check for mono compatability in cubase sx3?, as ive read that phazing of the mics during recording can lead to phaze problems l8er on. >>ie. When its played on a radio in mono,sometimes the phazing from using two mics at recording can cross over each other, and can cancel each others cross-phazing out.

No.? Phase problems during recording (or tracking) are immediately a problem.? If you have phase problems you have phase problems.?

Although I did some stereo acoustic guitar recording recently, this is a very rare exception for me.? I will almost always record both acoustic and electric guitar with a single mic these days.? What may seam okay while tracking can be a total nitemare when you take a mix out to the car.? Sometimes phase issues aren't immediately noticeable on studio monitors...at least not to the extend they can be when you take the mixes elsewhere.?

Brandon

[dach]

After ive recorded acoustic guitar, i inverted the phaze on 1 of the tracks to get it sounding better. Does anyone know how to check for mono compatability in cubase sx3?Huh,

Pan both channels to the center.

BTW, I use a mono mic set up on guitar for about 95% of the records I do.

Although my monitors are closer together than most people's, I usually pan both either hard L or R instead of C to check. It's only preference, but I'm able to single in better dealing with a single point mono source. I don't like to listen to a 2 point mono source... it can be confusing in my not so perfect room...

I record stereo VERY often, XY, MS and once in a while spaced pair. Hardly ever ORTF. Since most of the music I do is primarily acoustic based, with electric guitar as embellishment, this works much better for me come mix time. Most times when I use an XY, I also will place a 3rd mic somewhat traditionally to give me other options.

When recording a single miced guitar, like with melody lines, I usually place another mic into the corner and facing away from the source. This if placed well, can be used as a natural "room" sound or I can delay it for effect... It's not exactly a room sound more so a bunch of reflections and usually works better when I delay it. I don't spend much time placing it, usually do it by habit...

[brandondrury]

I usually pan both either hard L or R instead of C to check. It's only preference, but I'm able to single in better dealing with a single point mono source.

Very interesting. While there is no doublt that you can hear totally different things when panning, I've never heard of anyone relying on hard panning for evaluating critical phase relationships. I'll have to give that a try just to see how it works out.

Since most of the music I do is primarily acoustic based, with electric guitar as embellishment, this works much better for me come mix time.

Even though I've been engineering for years, I've done for little recording like this. On my current country / pop record I'm doing, I've had a blast using the acoustic as the "big instrument". It almost makes the electric guitar "boring" in some respects. It's forced us to get more creative with how we approach electric guitar playing.


Brandon

[Superdude]

Thats what i was doing too.Hard panning after recording the two mics to easliy/seperately hear the different recordings. I guess there is no Mono compatibitity button in Cubase SX3 then. I guess the only way to tell whether a mix will translate to mono well, is to export the audio as mono and listen back. > ?

[dach]

Super,

I'm not hard panning away from each other, I panning them together either L or R and muting them in and out to check. The surest way to be mislead is to listen to a mono source through two speakers.

I have plugins with a mono button but they rarely get used. I spend most time mixing and equing in mono which means I have the master faders panned hard L (my best ear! yes, one IS usually a bit better than the other - it's your brain that compensates... kind of like one side of your singers mouth emits a better sound - TRY IT...). I will also do a quick check through R. For me it's confusing listening to mono on 2 speakers... some may like it but not me....

Brandon,

Try it and let me know what you think.

[brandondrury]

I guess there is no Mono compatibitity button in Cubase SX3 then.

I know there is. I saw it the second day I had it. I'll look for you tonight. I don't remember it being hard to find. Maybe search for "mono" in the help thing.

ot hard panning away from each other, I panning them together either L or R and muting them in and out to check. The surest way to be mislead is to listen to a mono source through two speakers.

Well shit. I've been doing that for years. I always checked my electric guitars on one speaker although I never really thought about why. The same goes for most instruments.

For me it's confusing listening to mono on 2 speakers... some may like it but not me....

I'm with you on that one. I could write out the scientific reason for it, but I'll let Dogpit do it.

kind of like one side of your singers mouth emits a better sound - TRY IT...).

Now we are getting to the good stuff. I'm trying this tonight!

Brandon

[AfaraWayland]

so, are you all talking about 2 or more mics to a source through one speaker? or are you including multiple mono sources in one speaker?

I haven't been tracking much in stereo recently, but I remember being able to hear major phase problems through my reference headphones during mic placement when I did. I'd A/B between a mono source and its stereo mirror with the combination of the two, to hear to tambre changes. Then move the placement to where the change was the least.

I'm going tp start monitoring those stereo sources in mono out of ONE speaker from now on.

Thanks for the heads up!

-Andrew

[dach]

I hardly ever do it ... and you will need a helper... but... you can get string... fold it in half and place/hold the tip (the "V") at the source. wherever the ends of the string are, you know that they are equi-distant to the source... That should help you avoid excessive phase problems. Not my preferred method but it is easy and fast when in a pinch.

[brandondrury]

I do this with my overheads with the snare drum. It seams to do a decent job of capturing the snare. Luckily, I don't do much drum recording anymore.

Brandon