One Finished Song & One Unfinished Song...

[vintageblue]

The first song is from my band's last CD, the second is from our newest one. It's only drums & guitar so far.

[PeterSimonRussell]

OK, 04 Shut Inside is phenomenal.
I'm goin' rip off that intro' some time for sure.
For me the vocals could have been louder. I bet you know what the words are, don't you?
I don't and I struggle to hear what they are. (actually this issue get less as the track progresses).
I like the solo guitar sound but maybe its a bit on the thin side?
The ending's a bit of a mess - is it like that on the CD?
I don't know f all about drumin' but I thought the snare was a bit, well, random?

01_LALA
Is clearly heading for a similar place. The main riff, for me, could do with a bit more variation. I don't have any issue with any of the sounds?. Perhaps the very end is a cliched? Look forward to hearing the finished version.

[fHumble fHingaz]

I have to agree with The Tigs - Shut Inside is an excellent tune with commercial potential - The vocal performance sounds strong too, & it really needs to be controlled better dynamically, because it all but disappears when she's singing in the lower register. It sounds like the drums were tracked by a live drummer, then the kick was replaced with a very one-dimensional, single-layer sample. Because the kick is so clicky & constant in its level, it sounds completley divorced from the rest of the kit. This causes a vast contrast with the snare, which seems to be very uneven in its dynamics, & sounds thin & far away. Unfortunately, the drumming is all over the place timing-wise, & this kind of spoils it for me. There are many tools available for tightening up loose drum tracks these days, & it would have been better if you did this first before tracking the other song parts... An even better idea would be to get the drummer to practice & work on his timing & control before recording - then the compression & tightening up needed would be much less.

PS The drums sound MUCH better on the second snippet. Different drummer?

[vintageblue]

Originally Posted by PeterSimonRussell

OK, 04 Shut Inside is phenomenal.
I'm goin' rip off that intro' some time for sure.
For me the vocals could have been louder. I bet you know what the words are, don't you?
I don't and I struggle to hear what they are. (actually this issue get less as the track progresses).
I like the solo guitar sound but maybe its a bit on the thin side?
The ending's a bit of a mess - is it like that on the CD?
I don't know f all about drumin' but I thought the snare was a bit, well, random?

01_LALA
Is clearly heading for a similar place. The main riff, for me, could do with a bit more variation. I don't have any issue with any of the sounds?. Perhaps the very end is a cliched? Look forward to hearing the finished version.

Thanks for taking the time to give em a listen! Yeah, we've heard the comments about the vocals before, our singer has the same problem live. She never listens to us when we tell her that no one can hear her when she sings lower.
Our guitarist has worked on his tone since that recording; I hope that's evident by listening to the second recording. I'm not sure what you mean by the "ending's a bit of a mess?"
If the snare does not sound like a sample that's because it isn't. Real drummer playing real drums. The producer did, however, later sample/replace the original kick drum with the one you here now.

01LALA has a few more tracks to go before it's done, bass, vocals and a few miscellaneous things. The ending clearly has been done before...just not by us. Thanks!

[vintageblue]

Originally Posted by fHumble fHingaz

I have to agree with The Tigs - Shut Inside is an excellent tune with commercial potential - The vocal performance sounds strong too, & it really needs to be controlled better dynamically, because it all but disappears when she's singing in the lower register. It sounds like the drums were tracked by a live drummer, then the kick was replaced with a very one-dimensional, single-layer sample. Because the kick is so clicky & constant in its level, it sounds completley divorced from the rest of the kit. This causes a vast contrast with the snare, which seems to be very uneven in its dynamics, & sounds thin & far away. Unfortunately, the drumming is all over the place timing-wise, & this kind of spoils it for me. There are many tools available for tightening up loose drum tracks these days, & it would have been better if you did this first before tracking the other song parts... An even better idea would be to get the drummer to practice & work on his timing & control before recording - then the compression & tightening up needed would be much less.

PS The drums sound MUCH better on the second snippet. Different drummer?

Thanks for the kind words. Shut Inside was our first "single." The engineer ran everything through new SSL plug-ins, and we thought they sounded amazing. (I still do for what it's worth) As I mentioned above, the engineer did end up replacing the original kick track using Drumagog.
The snare drum has all the dynamics of our live show (which is what we aim for) so the sampled kick probably makes more of a contrast then what there really is.
As far as "control" & "timing", this is what we sound like live; if anything it's a bit slower than live. I really don't know what to say about that, same drummer for both songs. But we're also not fans of misusing click tracks. For ballads, heavily sampled music, and electronica it makes perfect sense to have everything done to a click track. But I would shudder to think of the catalogs of the Rolling Stones, Zeppelin, CSNY, The Police, etc. all having been done to click tracks. So much emotion, energy, & spontenaity would have been lost had they been recorded so one-dimensionally.

Your comment about the second snippet makes me feel pretty good. First song was recorded at someone else's studio with "state of the art" equipment. Second song was recorded by myself. In a church sanctuary. With "budget" gear. I'm using our previous album as a reference point in terms of "I have to make these new recordings of equal or better quality than our previous album/recordings." Thanks again.

[fHumble fHingaz]

As far as "control" & "timing", this is what we sound like live; if anything it's a bit slower than live. I really don't know what to say about that, same drummer for both songs. But we're also not fans of misusing click tracks. For ballads, heavily sampled music, and electronica it makes perfect sense to have everything done to a click track. But I would shudder to think of the catalogs of the Rolling Stones, Zeppelin, CSNY, The Police, etc. all having been done to click tracks. So much emotion, energy, & spontenaity would have been lost had they been recorded so one-dimensionally.

Who said anything about using click tracks? When I said the drumming was all over the place timing-wise, I meant, click or no click, that the timing wasn't "solid". Personally, I couldn't care less whether a drummer did or didn't use a click... In fact, I've recorded drummers who sound really solid without a click, while nothing (bar serious editing) seems to be able to keep other drummer's timing sounding "right". As far keeping the integrity of your live sound, if you follow that logic, you'd have your singer singing through a crusty old SM58, & some tone-deaf neanderthal who doesn't give a tinker's cuss about your sound on the mixing desk (& who inexeplicably does a wonderful job with the headline act)! Yes, of course I'm being stupid, but my point is that the whole idea of recording is to capture the essense of a band's sound without the bad stuff...
We tend to romaticize the greats & their fantastic studio recordings with natural feel & swing, but don't forget that they had years of "road work" behind them, & apart from being massively naturally talented, they spent a lot of time & money working up their tunes for recording with the assistance of some very experienced producers...
Ultimately, I think the reason why the second clip's drumming sounds much better is because it is a simpler, unsyncopated rhythm that your drummer plays comfortably - Could be too, that he felt less pressured in the home studio environment & thus produced a more relaxed performance - therefore it sounds good! I think the lesson here is to play within your limits.