Help for Metal Mix Guitars

[thejusticelair]

Ok so im pretty new to mixing metal, i love the genre and play in the band i just dont have any experience recording or mixing metal yet. So what I posted is a rough mix of the tracks ( ignore the bass, the bassist hasnt recorded yet and its my attempt at it to just gauge how things will fit)
all i did as far as mixing was the levels and pan so these tracks are raw. my question is what would you do to assess how you would mix this? how can i make everything fit into its place? and how are the guitar tracks quality as far as fitting them in the mix well. sorry for all the questions I just want to get as much advice as i can before i mix this.... bass and vocals will be on the way shortly.

[Test Cut]

Listened to the first minute and it sounds pretty good to me, especially if it's a first go. Shit. You should hear mine.

Think you've already gathered from what i heard, but one of the most important rules (always breakable though) with Metal is to record the rythm twice and pan them far left and far right. Personally i'd record the left track again, pan it to the right, then dump that twiddly bit somewhere towards the middle. That's a preference/style thing though and it sounds ok the way it is. Guessing you've still got to EQ it, but would increase the high end too.

Other rules of my own: never overly compress, and always add a bit of reverb, even if it's only like at 1%.

As for mixing, group tracks are your friend. I'll usually set up a song with a vocal group, drum group, guitar group, bass group, and a guitar and bass group if that makes sense. That way if you want one guitar louder than another you can go to the track. If you want all the guitars up you only have to deal with one fader. Makes for much faster mixing. Is also good for adding settings to multiple tracks as it gets less computer intensive.

This is my first reply here. Hope it's helped.

[thejusticelair]

hey man thanks for the reply, yea every bit helps so anything else you think of and anything from anyone else would be great.

[thejusticelair]

I tried to record the guitars and bass so I would have to do as little eq as possible but i suppose some eqing will give me some separation and clarity between tracks, if done correctly of course.

[Test Cut]

Just noticed you're actually a "Senior Member", what ever that means. But am guessing you've probably done a fair bit of this, just not so much with a Metal guitar?

Have found it can be handy to grab a song with a sound you like and try your arse off to work out how they did it. Listened to yours all the way through and i like the way the left and right tracks sometimes deviate then come back together to the same notes. There was a part around 1:40 where the left was kind of lacking a bit. i mean i know that's what it would sound like live, but when Slayer record their solos and pan them to one side you can hear that there's still a rythm line under it. It's Metal after all. To a lot of people it has to be a constant punch to the face :P

Would be a better world if you could record flat, but... The first demo i did i had the intention of playing it live, so recorded the guitar twice and panned them. With the second demo i was really trying to get something like Entombed-Clandestine with some really trebly guitars left and right and a more growly, midranged thing in the centre. Couldn't get it working though so recorded the centre line again and panned it. Took a long bloody time recording it four times, but with the large difference in EQing it did sound pretty big. i even recorded the bass twice and panned it. Basically ended up with the same song recorded twice and dumped in each ear. With the stuff i'm working on now i'm trying to do a lot more centring with various levels of success.

Guess what i'm saying is the safest way is to record left and right, group them, then add a bit of compression and reverb, then EQ till the sound makes you want to blow. Is pretty hard to go wrong with that. There are better ways that i'm experimenting with, but will have to get back to you in a couple of months.

[Test Cut]

And i just dumped one of my old songs up for ridicule if you're interested. Same thread. Flame away

[dmmi]

here....I'll paddle for a while 'cause we're in the same boat.

I've played metal for 15+ years, taken recording engineering, and I still can't get it right.

It really is an art!....What what you've done here sounds really good, so your on the right track. (better than me for sure!).

I think you're the type of person that will improve just by doing....that is how the best engineers got there.

My only advise can be from what I know, and that is this music is meant to be loud.....so I think if you put a limiter on your output to get thelevels up, you'll relly notice a difference.

Cheers!

[dmmi]

sorry 'bout the typing....kinda half cut

[Vanan]

Originally Posted by Test Cut

and always add a bit of reverb, even if it's only like at 1%.

I don't claim to be a pro, and definitely ain't a senior member (whatever that means. ) but pray tell how the heck would you be able to tell the difference between flat and 1% reverb? Forgive me if I sound like I haven't paid enough attention to what I'm listening for but I find that I can only tell the difference when I bring the 'verb up to 10% or more. Am I just too under-developed?

Again, I don't claim to be a pro, so you seniors please forgive me. I say if you like it flat, good. If you want a reverb, tweak it in there. But I don't see the point of adding 1% reverb, "just cos". *humbly slinks away to the nether depths*

[Test Cut]

Seriously, you're probably better at this stuff than i am.

The reverb thing came from a professional sound engineer i used to live next to, and i think it's one of those psychological things. Like when someone has an eye slightly higher than the other. You look at their face and can tell something's wrong, but can't tell what it actually is. Similar with reverb. Everything you hear in real life has some kind of reverb. Nothing is ever flat. So if you record flat it sounds unnatural. And if you add so little that you can't hear it, you are still perceiving it. Now that might be the biggest hunk of shit ever, but it was said by someone who used this technology to feed his kid, so...

Maybe we should start a thread about this and see what the pros on this thread think.