BFD vs Drumagog vs ToonTracks

[Formula77]

Okay,
I apologize if this is well trodden territory, but I have searched and haven't been able to find the exact answer I need.

I have a Digidesign 003 running Pro Tools LE 8 on a PC. In addition to that I am a drummer and like to actually play my tracks. I can play my tracks in on real drums or a Roland VDrum rig. However, since I am not the second coming of Bob Clearmountain, my tracks usually need a little help to get the sound I am looking for. Generally, the tracks also need little quantization or elastic time. I have used the PT Sound Replacer and it is not quite up to my standards.

With that said, between BFD, Drumagog, ToonTracks, which of these products will give me the ability to do everything from sound replacement to midi performances to instrument tracks? The most important thing is that the drums sound "real" and "acoustic". Ease of use is second most important. Cost is third.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[fortyseven]

Toontracks products will definitely be my first choice. Their products are very real souning and extremely user-friendly. Drumagog is a pretty decent drum sound replacer and I have no comment on BFD as Ive not used it.

[String7th]

From what I understand, none of these will turn your audio tracks into midi automatically.
Toontrack's Drumtracker will and it's about $150.
You can also look into Drumagog that's a real-time plug in, that works with BFD

[TonyB]

As an avid Drumagog user I can tell you it is a real sampler, meaning that the samples are from real drums. However, it doesn't have any midi capability.

[oops... Srting7th answered the same time I did!]

[Formula77]

Thanks for the responses guys.
Follow up questions:
What is your general work flow? Do you record live drums then convert to midi notes then use BFD/Drumagog/ToonTracks? Or do you play live midi into BFD/Drumagog/ToonTracks? Or...?

What are your favorite samples/patches/whatever for nice acoustic sounds?

[TonyB]

Thanks for the responses guys.
Follow up questions:
What is your general work flow? Do you record live drums then convert to midi notes then use BFD/Drumagog/ToonTracks? Or do you play live midi into BFD/Drumagog/ToonTracks? Or...?

What are your favorite samples/patches/whatever for nice acoustic sounds?

I don't do midi at all, so I can't answer that.

I record the live drums to get the best possible sound I can get with my mics and preamps. I primarily use the Presonus Firepod with SM-57's, Beta 52a, MD421, and AKG D112 for drums. With drums you don't need the high-end preamps because you're not working the preamps hard anyway.

If what I tracked isn't working then I'll pop in Drumagog, usually to spruce up a kick or the snare or both. I've been using Farview Recording Drumagog Drum Tracks.

To a certain extent, Drumagog is a good gate.

[boo]

I am a drummer and have BFD, Ezdrummer, and Toontrack Superior.

From what I understand, none of these will turn your audio tracks into midi automatically.

What?? they are all designed to start with MIDI, they are virtual instruments! At least every program I have does.

I would recommend BFD hands down. the most realistic, you can edit midi and then convert to audio, it just sounds the best, imo. I don't know how easy Protools has made midi editing now, I haven't tried it, but in Logic it is a snap.

[brandondrury]

the tracks also need little quantization

Why? Maybe I'm a bit extreme or old school in this regard, but I think that you either program your drums or you use a real drummer. You don't do both. If I want the human feel, I want the human feel and that's what we go for. To de-humanize a human seams a bit counterintuitive.

This fear of looseness has got to stop. That sounds like a new blog to write.
This Fear Of Looseness Has Got To Stop

Now to the real questions. I'll sum this one up as there are a lot of bits of info but nothing comprehensive so far.

Superior Drummer 2.0, Addictive Drums, BFD2, etc are all samples. They require that you send MIDI data to them before they make noise. (They are extremely realistic as I'm sure you've heard). This MIDI data can be from any MIDI device...edrum kit, keyboard, or from importing MIDI loops.

Drum Tracker and Drumagog are sound replacers. This means that you take an audio file (we'll say a snare drum track) and use transients in that snare drum track to trigger audio samples in Drumagog with the idea being that you can ditch the crappy snare and use the new one.

You can also use KtDrumTrigger which will convert audio transients to MIDI. It's what I use and once I have the MIDI data I can then send that to the samples.

Brandon

Brandon

[Formula77]

Brandon,
maybe I overstated myself on quantization. I like my tracks to breathe too. However, sometimes a measure or two of quantization is what the doctor ordered on a part that got a smidge off. Generally, I use elastic time to tweak it to where it just sounds right.

By the way, I watched some youtubes on Addictive drums and came away impressed.

[fortyseven]

When working on my own tracks I initially use EZDrummer to program the drum track until Im completely happy with the whole track. Once that is done I will replay the drum track myself on an electro kit hooked up via MIDI. I will then use that MIDI track in EZdrummer and if I need to, I may use Drumagog to add some juice.