Help Recording on a Yamaha AW1600: getting abysmal guitar sound

[ishtar2020]

Hello everyone

I'm new on this forum, so please excuse me if this has been
asked before.

A year ago my band bought a Yamaha AW1600 machine with
the intention of doing our own records at home. Obviously
we weren't looking for 'high end audiophile quality', just a very
portable, compromised solution to get decent-sounding songs with
minimum hassle. I listened to sound clips of the thing before buying
and seemed 'hi-fi' enough for me.

I made a couple of recordings for a friend's band and I was surprised of
the terrible guitar sound I was getting. A muddy, distant piece of
shit of a sound that seemed to belong nowhere in the mix, no matter
how I tweaked the amps, no matter how much I raised the treble or mids
to increase presence and brightness, the sound stayed dull and crappy all the way to the end.

Since my friend's amps are the lowest of the low in the marshall budget
line (a MG series 250), I blamed the subpar performance on them, and
expected to record my trusty, arguably better gear.

My guitar amp is a Hiwatt Custom 50 with matched 2x12 Fane Speakers, all valve. Obviously, a major improvement and a beast of an amp. I love it and I assure you that It's quite difficult to get a crappy sound out of it.

Then how must it be that all I can get with the Yamaha recorder is that ugly, dull sound again and again? I'm recording with a Shure SM57, I've seen people get killer sounds out of it with minimum effort. I've tried all kinds of things, changed the distance, the angles, even tried with a matched pair on a x/y fashion. I only got minor differences on the same underwater, muddy tone.

I know how to use the machine. I've read the manual and have no questions about the usage. I seem to be doing everything right. I've heard Brandon's Guitar Microphone Shootout and all the sounds he got where like a million times better. Obviously I think the fault is on the machine's crappy preamp or something, so I'm pondering on dropping the Yamaha and starting again from scratch with a pc interface... but I'd like to be sure I'm not screwing up.

Has anyone here recorded good or decent guitar sounds with an Aw1600?
If so, how? I'm really really willing to learn. Also, should I dump the damn machine and get a good soundcard + preamp?

Thank you very much guys, and excuse me if my post is too long

[gzb]

Since you are micing the sound generated from your guitar amplifier you probably need to run the mic through a pre-amp to juice up the sound. My experience with the 1600 led me to believe the on board pre-amps were pretty lame.

Just a thought - it helped me when i was still running the 1600

Hang in there it's a pretty good piece of gear if you work it hard enough!

gzb

[ishtar2020]

Hey gzb,

Thank you so much for your prompt answer! I'm glad to know that
the AW does indeed accept external preamps. Seems like the obvious solution to my problem. I'm following your recommendation and hiring one tomorrow at a local store to make some tests. If the tone quality increases, then I will buy it.

Thank you again.

[C. Hanson]

Hi
I've tried some of these techniques over the years (I purchased the 1600 three months ago, and have had limited time with it):

1. Double the guitar in some way, such as a mic direct in from the source (amp), as you've been doing, plus a direct send into the HI-Z input (input 8 on the machine), and get a mix of the two sounds;
2. Two mics at different angles, running into 2 different inputs and tracks, then get a mix;
3. Simply copying the track to have 2 identical tracks (which, you'd think, should get you extra volume.
4. You mentioned the SM57, which is fine--what about a condensor mic with a more sensitive response?

As stated, I'm relatively new to the machine (although I did have quite a bit to do with its predecessor, the AW16G), but I 've found that it does record with great accuracy, but it often depends on the signal coming in.

Did you record the band as a unit or did you go one track at a time? That can make a difference.

Sorry if this is no help.

[adorian]

I am actually surprised you're not getting good results with this unit. I think you should be able to get pretty good recordings. I've recorded on the Yamaha digital mixers with the same pres as in your unit and honestly, they're not that bad at all. Natural clean sounding pres, without much character, well maybe even just a tad on the dull side but definitely workable. With such an expensive amp you should be capturing something good if working the gear properly. I think something is happening with your signal level during tracking or recording. Try a different mic/cable/input. Try modeling preamp into a line in if you have one just to see if the problem arises from your mic chain.
Honestly - to me seems like a faulty mic or user error more than problem with the unit itself.
From what I've heard from a producer friend of mine you can get a pretty slick pro product from this unit (AW2400).

[professor tweed]

Hi, I had a similar experience with my AKAI DPS 16. I now use a UA SOLO 610 preamp and get a really good sound. I went through a phase of going in through an apogee mini me via the digital ins but that didn't work out too good (I'll initiate another post on that). The mic I use is a beyer m160 ribbon (the type used on a lot of Hendrix recordings). Cost is about £300. I have different mic set ups for different amps. For my 1958 Deluxe I find that having it about 9 inches out from the middle of the speaker but angled to the side of the cabinet works best. Other amps (speakers?) go better with it at same distance but pointing at the centre of the cabinet. A case of experiment and find out what works. See if you can borrow a decent preamp and see if that helps. I was about to give up on the AKAI but am glad I didn't. Good luck.

[ikea boy]

the Yamaha 1600 when I had one (I gave it to my church to use to raise funds in an auction.)

I recorded in this order: Variax pod xt live aw 1600
it sounded good, my hyper-critical friends though is sounded good.
true it wasn't real,.... but it sounded good .

Hello ikea boy it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?

so does this qualify as appropriate behavior?