Using Logic 9 on your PC [GUIDE]

[Hunter33]

PART I - CAN YOUR SYSTEM HANDLE IT?

It being ;

(1) not assuming your system already is a DAW (if it is ignore this), is it capable of handling intensive audio tasking?

(2) does it have the right components to host OSX?

So moving on with the above in mind, for those of us who can't afford a mac but have a semi decent windows pc setup, heres a starters guide to hackintosh.

---------------------------
disclaimer:

This really is an aternative for those who want to run logic (maybe you are studying it at college) but do not have the cash to purchase an osx system. Due to the nature of these kinds of setups there are no guarantees that it will immediately work on every single system (in some cases it does simply work without much fiddling at all, its all down to your components) and due to the fact that there are many thousands of combinations of different hardware setups possible on pc's this setup will inevitably work on some systems and not on others.

i can definitely tell you right now it is more problematic to get working on systems with an amd processor. This is easier for intel cpu systems. (due to the latest macs being intel cpu based).

You may find that you have to replace a component or two (hard disk, sata drive, possibly graphics card etc) to get it working properly but this is usually still much cheaper than buying an osx system.
Lastly note that there are intel i7 systems running osx but having the latest gear does not necessarily make it an easier task to get osx working. The most documented working setups are core2duos or quads. Graphics cards are sometimes the biggest problem as apple has special versions of popular cards built for macs. You may have to search for and install the correct tweaked files to get your card working, but these are all available on the forum links i will provide.

I probably won't be able to help you much with very specifc advice but i can show you the door to all your answers, you may have to do some digging. I am merely showing you that there is an alternative to buying a mac just to run things like logic (without running a virtual machine). Virtual machines eat up your processing power and there are issues between shared devices like sound cards.

This setup means you can have the best of both worlds without breaking the bank. Later you can go and buy a mac once you make a hit record!

also note you will have to fumble around a bit in the dark not entirely sure what you are doing at times. At these times you proceed at your own risk but i can honestly say theres not much you could do to break your system beyond repair (golden rule is if you don't understand what it does, don't mess with it). Worst case scenario you will have to reinstall your os.

I am not affiliated with any of the sites i may provide links to so don't ask me for advice on using their software. They all have their own support forums.

This is simply a 'how i did it' guide.

/disclaimer
-------------------------------

-------------------------------
an example of a working system (in this case its mine):

1 x 500gb sata ii hdd (contains windows 7 64bit installation)
1 x 64gb sata ii ssd (contains osx installation)
abit ab9 pro mainboard (socket 775: Core2duo / core2quad chips etc)
ati hd4890 1gb vram graphics card (dual output but only 1 screen working).
M-audio delta 1010 pcie soundcard (with external breakout box)
4 x 1gb ram (ddr2 nothing fancy)
------------------------

------------------------
some faqs

what is dual boot?
its basically when you have more than one operating system on your machine so when you turn it on it then provides you an option as to which operating system you want to use.
In this case as we are installing on seperate hard drives, you will need a boot disk.

whats a boot disk?
you can download one from here which is free. When you want to run osx you will need this disc as it emulates the mac efi.

whats the difference between a mac system and a pc system?
all systems use a 'basic input output system' or bios, macs call these efi's and they are hardware based. The windows bios is software based. Therefore to be able to boot like a mac, as we are not able to install mac hardware, we have to emulate their efi with software.
This is done via the boot disk.
------------------

------------------
the best way to go about this is to look at it as an upgrade and be prepared to upgrade components. If you are using a machine that already has windows on it, then you will be making a dual bootable system.

Before you rush out and buy logic 9, we should test if we can get osx running on your system first.

The easiest way to test this (believe me i have seen a lot of methods) is to just try and install it.
However you will need a special boot disk which you can download for free at the following site. That site also has a nice guide for installation too and if you experience any issues with the bootdisk i suggest asking for help on their forums as i am not affiliated with any of these links i may provide. This is simply a 'how i did it' guide.

so intially we will need to do 4 things to get started:

1> a retail copy of osx snow leopard (pretty cheap compared to windows os, £25)

2> a blank or formatted hard disk drive (do not format your windows drive unless you don't want to use windows anymore and in this case i suggest backing up any important files first in case you change your mind. If you want to dual boot, you must have a seperate hard drive for each operating system (its just easier this way). You do not need to do anything to your hard disk as long as it is attached to the system correctly. We will format the disk in osx once its running.

3> a boot disc which you can download from the link below [or here - registration required]. You must then burn this to a cd.
3.1> in some cases you may find the system is unable to find the boot disc. This is usually because either you have not set it to be the first bootable drive in bios or you may need to get a sata optical drive.

4> if you have followed the above you have done most of step 1 already.
Follow the rest of the guide here:
tonymacx86 blog: Iboot + multibeast: Install mac os x on any intel-based pc

its a pretty good guide (and i see theres even updated word on installing non intel based systems).

Feel free to ask for tips but heres a bunch of links that will help no doubt and where i found most of my answers.

main osx86 wiki:
main page - osx86

^^osx86 bible

hcls (hardware conpatability lists:
hcl 10.6.2/desktops - osx86

^^don't take these lists to be the be all and end all of compatible components. But they can help if you want to see if someone has already got a working osx86 system using the same equipment as you. Make sure to check the version according to which version of osx you are installing (snow leopard is osx10.6.2 afaik).

insanely mac forums:
insanelymac forum

^^lots of useful info on there and also lots of helpful people with experience.



downsides

as i already stated, theres so many combinations of equipment, there are certain to be setups that have issues. For example in my setup, i can only get 1 screen working (i have 2 but 1 goes to sleep in osx). This is because of my graphics card. I could go and get a different cheaper graphics card that would run 2 screens but i prefer not to as i use my current card for gaming on my pc side.
Another quirk of my system is that i had to find special drivers to get my soundcard (m-audio delta 1010) working. If you need help with getting setup using any hardware i am using ask away and i will post links to stuff i used.

hopefully this has been enough information to help get you started and possibly give you enough courage to take the plunge.
Good luck! :beerbangx:

[RE4P3R]

Please Please Please tell me how to do this!! lol ive been sitting here for the past month with the money to get either a mac, or a laptop which could eat it whole for £150 less... I am a lover of the windows OS and pc's compatability with everything, but cant bring myself to use anything but logic for composition... Is this a ridiculously convoluted process or quite straightforward? and what are the results like? glitchy or stable? Thnx

[artwork]

Please Please Please tell me how to do this!! lol ive been sitting here for the past month with the money to get either a mac, or a laptop which could eat it whole for £150 less... I am a lover of the windows OS and pc's compatability with everything, but cant bring myself to use anything but logic for composition... Is this a ridiculously convoluted process or quite straightforward? and what are the results like? glitchy or stable? Thnx

this is really simple just a matter of getting the right parts, there multiple websites just look up hackintosh, mine works perfectly

[andywithay]

yeah i just made a "hackintosh" with my intel-based system. you pretty much just need to find a reliable bootloader and a good tutorial online and youre set. logic is truly a great daw and definitely worth the trouble in my opinion!

[artwork]

Hackintosh Instructions, Hackintosh How To Guides @ Hackintosh.com

and when you want to get fancy (im doing this right now..)

My hackintosh in Power Mac G5 Enclosure - InsanelyMac Forum
(this has some specific specs)

[Dakoom]

Great idea!

[yodaco]

Hey kids.. i just though id share this with you all... its more effort to install OSX directly to ur system... im using a Samsung NC10 netbook and i run Mac OS X 10.6 in a VM just fine. i do this just to use Logic 9.. its not the best performance but only because my netbook has very low resources.. if your using a decent laptop or pc you should be able to do the same with no issues.. heres a good tutorial.. its not the one i used but its very concise Welcome to Snow Leopard: Mac OS X 10.6 and VMware Workstation 7 « Bob’s Mental Moshpit
VM's are the way forward save yourself alot of hasstle and possible risk or messing up your bootloader trying to install OSX

[Hunter33]

Okay this guide I started got buried under a mountain of other work I had lol, I will update the first thread with the relevant links.

I have a working Intel based dual core PC which runs Windows 7 64bit, Windows XP and OSX 10.6 with Logic Pro 9. All totally legit.
The money you save from buying a Mac you can spend on musical equipment instead.

Also I do NOT recommend using a Virtual Machine for making music. You want the full usage of your CPU going towards your software. It is very very simple to install OSX on your PC but you will need an additional hard disk to do this because installing two operating systems side by side on the same hard disk can cause issues.

I have Windows XP and Windows 7 on one hard disk (seperate partitions ofc) and OSX on another (which is actually an Solid State Drive so it loads samples faster).

[dantiberian]

Another thing to think about instead of making a hackintosh is buying a second hand Mac. They hold their resale value well and 4 year old Macbook Pro's will still run Logic great.

[lsutigh]

Okay this guide I started got buried under a mountain of other work I had lol, I will update the first thread with the relevant links.

I have a working Intel based dual core PC which runs Windows 7 64bit, Windows XP and OSX 10.6 with Logic Pro 9. All totally legit.
The money you save from buying a Mac you can spend on musical equipment instead.

Also I do NOT recommend using a Virtual Machine for making music. You want the full usage of your CPU going towards your software. It is very very simple to install OSX on your PC but you will need an additional hard disk to do this because installing two operating systems side by side on the same hard disk can cause issues.

I have Windows XP and Windows 7 on one hard disk (seperate partitions ofc) and OSX on another (which is actually an Solid State Drive so it loads samples faster).

Dude I would kill for this guide. Hook us up when you have the chance!

[dantiberian]

A great guide that I've read for Hackintoshing (I'm on the fence about doing it myself) is How to Build a Hackintosh | NoFilmSchool. He's doing it for film work but the 'low end' Hac Pro was still a beast.

[Hunter33]

for those of us who can't afford a mac but have a semi decent windows pc setup.

---------------------------
disclaimer:

this really is an aternative for those who want to run logic (maybe you are studying it at college) but do not have the cash to purchase an osx system. Due to the nature of these kinds of setups there are no guarantees that it will immediately work on every single system (in some cases it does simply work without much fiddling at all, its all down to your components) and due to the fact that there are many thousands of combinations of different hardware setups possible on pc's this setup will inevitably work on some systems and not on others.

i can definitely tell you right now it is more problematic to get working on systems with an amd processor. This is easier for intel cpu systems. (due to the latest macs being intel cpu based).

You may find that you have to replace a component or two (hard disk, sata drive, possibly graphics card etc) to get it working properly but this is usually still much cheaper than buying an osx system.
Lastly note that there are intel i7 systems running osx but having the latest gear does not necessarily make it an easier task to get osx working. The most documented working setups are core2duos or quads. Graphics cards are sometimes the biggest problem as apple has special versions of popular cards built for macs. You may have to search for and install the correct tweaked files to get your card working, but these are all available on the forum links i will provide.

I probably won't be able to help you much with very specifc advice but i can show you the door to all your answers, you may have to do some digging. I am merely showing you that there is an alternative to buying a mac just to run things like logic (without running a virtual machine). Virtual machines eat up your processing power and there are issues between shared devices like sound cards.

This setup means you can have the best of both worlds without breaking the bank. Later you can go and buy a mac once you make a hit record!

also note you will have to fumble around a bit in the dark not entirely sure what you are doing at times. At these times you proceed at your own risk but i can honestly say theres not much you could do to break your system beyond repair (golden rule is if you don't understand what it does, don't mess with it). Worst case scenario you will have to reinstall your os.

I am not affiliated with any of the sites i may provide links to so don't ask me for advice on using their software. They all have their own support forums.

This is simply a 'how i did it' guide.

/disclaimer
-------------------------------

-------------------------------
an example of a working system (in this case its mine):

1 x 500gb sata ii hdd (contains windows 7 64bit installation)
1 x 64gb sata ii ssd (contains osx installation)
abit ab9 pro mainboard (socket 775: Core2duo / core2quad chips etc)
ati hd4890 1gb vram graphics card (dual output but only 1 screen working).
M-audio delta 1010 pcie soundcard (with external breakout box)
4 x 1gb ram (ddr2 nothing fancy)
------------------------

------------------------
some faqs

what is dual boot?
its basically when you have more than one operating system on your machine so when you turn it on it then provides you an option as to which operating system you want to use.
In this case as we are installing on seperate hard drives, you will need a boot disk.

whats a boot disk?
you can download one from here which is free. When you want to run osx you will need this disc as it emulates the mac efi.

whats the difference between a mac system and a pc system?
all systems use a 'basic input output system' or bios, macs call these efi's and they are hardware based. The windows bios is software based. Therefore to be able to boot like a mac, as we are not able to install mac hardware, we have to emulate their efi with software.
This is done via the boot disk.
------------------

------------------
the best way to go about this is to look at it as an upgrade and be prepared to upgrade components. If you are using a machine that already has windows on it, then you will be making a dual bootable system.

Before you rush out and buy logic 9, we should test if we can get osx running on your system first.

The easiest way to test this (believe me i have seen a lot of methods) is to just try and install it.
However you will need a special boot disk which you can download for free at the following site. That site also has a nice guide for installation too and if you experience any issues with the bootdisk i suggest asking for help on their forums as i am not affiliated with any of these links i may provide. This is simply a 'how i did it' guide.

so intially we will need to do 4 things to get started:

1> a retail copy of osx snow leopard (pretty cheap compared to windows os, £25)

2> a blank or formatted hard disk drive (do not format your windows drive unless you don't want to use windows anymore and in this case i suggest backing up any important files first in case you change your mind. If you want to dual boot, you must have a seperate hard drive for each operating system (its just easier this way). You do not need to do anything to your hard disk as long as it is attached to the system correctly. We will format the disk in osx once its running.

3> a boot disc which you can download from the link below [or here - registration required]. You must then burn this to a cd.
3.1> in some cases you may find the system is unable to find the boot disc. This is usually because either you have not set it to be the first bootable drive in bios or you may need to get a sata optical drive.

4> if you have followed the above you have done most of step 1 already.
Follow the rest of the guide here:
tonymacx86 blog: Iboot + multibeast: Install mac os x on any intel-based pc

its a pretty good guide (and i see theres even updated word on installing non intel based systems).

Feel free to ask for tips but heres a bunch of links that will help no doubt and where i found most of my answers.

main osx86 wiki:
main page - osx86

^^osx86 bible

hcls (hardware conpatability lists:
hcl 10.6.2/desktops - osx86

^^don't take these lists to be the be all and end all of compatible components. But they can help if you want to see if someone has already got a working osx86 system using the same equipment as you. Make sure to check the version according to which version of osx you are installing (snow leopard is osx10.6.2 afaik).

insanely mac forums:
insanelymac forum

^^lots of useful info on there and also lots of helpful people with experience.



downsides

as i already stated, theres so many combinations of equipment, there are certain to be setups that have issues. For example in my setup, i can only get 1 screen working (i have 2 but 1 goes to sleep in osx). This is because of my graphics card. I could go and get a different cheaper graphics card that would run 2 screens but i prefer not to as i use my current card for gaming on my pc side.
Another quirk of my system is that i had to find special drivers to get my soundcard (m-audio delta 1010) working. If you need help with getting setup using any hardware i am using ask away and i will post links to stuff i used.

hopefully this has been enough information to help get you started and possibly give you enough courage to take the plunge.
Good luck! :beerbangx:

updated first post...

[Hunter33]

Thinking of upgrading your system to an Intel i3/i5/i7 series? Read on!

Right now I'm looking at upgrading my system as its about 5 years or older and I want to take advantage of the newer cpu speeds which are a lot better and run a lot cooler (which means less noisy fans in the studio).
Thats not the only reason ofc, I think an upgrade every 5 years is about right and it helps you keep up with the more demanding software that is being put out.

I looked at a simple upgrade to a quadcore (only using a 2core Intel atm) as this was the cheapest upgrade option for me but soon realised that my options were more limited than I thought due to the fact that they no longer even make the core2quads.
So you have to make do with what you can find and in my case only a couple of specific quad models will work. Anyway, after some shenanigans with non compatible cpus I finally decided to go the whole hog and just upgrade my whole system to the Intel SandyBridge series.

These CPUs (second generation i3/i5/i7's) haven't been out very long and so the main people that are developing the stuff to run OSX on PC hardware are still ironing out the bugs and glitches.

Why am I posting about this. Well I just wanted to spread the word that you can have a top of the range system that runs OSX for about half the price of a Mac and a little patience.

I am in the process of choosing my components and if theres anyone else in the same position of upgrading right now, I would encourage you to take a look at the following link to see the number of different builds people have that can run OSX using the latest PC gear.

Theres a lot of successful working builds here:
tonymacx86 Forum OSX86 BUILDS

[Dave Clarke]

You mention that "I had to find special drivers to get my soundcard (M-Audio Delta 1010)" - I have the same card (I used to be PC/Cubase based, but do most recording on a Macbook Pro, with Logic now). I've successfully installed up to adding the sound card with no problems -thanks. I was wondering if you could point me int he direction of the drivers please ?

Thanks very much,

Dave

[Hunter33]

You mention that "I had to find special drivers to get my soundcard (M-Audio Delta 1010)" - I have the same card (I used to be PC/Cubase based, but do most recording on a Macbook Pro, with Logic now). I've successfully installed up to adding the sound card with no problems -thanks. I was wondering if you could point me int he direction of the drivers please ?

Thanks very much,

Dave

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I don't visit as often as I used to.

This is the link you want for the drivers to run the M-Audio soundcards on a PC Based OSx setup (hackintosh):
OSX86 sound card drivers

You want the one under the Envy24 heading depending on which version of OSX you have installed (I have the last version of Snow Leopard before Lion).
I have no experience of runnign with Lion OS yet (and don't intend to upgrade).

Also I actually updated the first post of this thread which I seem to have fogotten to do before - apologies.

[richiebee]

If you want a Mac vs PC argument, do it in the Band Bar where political rants are fair game. Please keep this thread on topic for those who find the Hackintosh a useful project.

Rich

[venuestudio]

I hope I didn't step on any toes. I did not realize you could run OSX on a PC. Just spent some time on google looking at the options. Pretty interesting. I was curious about multiple core PCs as my son is a gamer and always looking for a better system but I know nothing about PC architecture. If he could have a multicore PC that ran OSX that would be a win win I think.

[jbreeden]

It was xenon-whatever and I who were having the flame war.

This site has great templates for custom builds that have known-to-work configurations.
tonymacx86 Blog: CustoMac

My hack pro is derivative of their 2010 build, and is still very very snappy. Keep in mind an SSD will do more for perceived performance(responsiveness) than most RAM or CPU upgrades.