Drum Modules and Sample Reaplacement Pt1

[Danny Danzi]

Quite a few of these going around these days and everyone seems to be using them. I have used quite of few of these and wanted to give you my take. A few old ones, a few new ones.

BFD 1: Decent module. You can probably get it pretty cheap if you can find it as it's been replaced by BFD 2 which I'll get to. Some good sounds and flexibility. Not blown away by the sounds, but like I say, they are pretty good. 2 really good snares for rock with a nice pop.

Pros: Realistic drums in a room with some good control.

Cons: Might be hard to find as I don't know if Fxpansion is making it anymore. Lacks a few options that are essential to power mongers like myself.

BFD 2: They broke the mold when they made this monster. To me, this is the drum module of all modules and there's just about nothing you can't achieve with this. It's pricey at about $400, but your drum search comes to an end once you buy this. The toughest thing about it is learning the interface as it is nearly a DAW all in itself. There are many ways to use it though so it will please just about everyone. The standard kits are soo good, you may not have to buy any of the expansion kits. Totally tweakable as well as the ability to make your own sick hybrid kits. Mixing board, effects, plays in real time with V Drums and comes in standalone and VSTi. It can also be brought into certain programs like Cubase and Sonar by setting it up to feed off of your audio tracks so you have individual control over every drum, mic and room ambience without opening up the module. This can be a tricky procedure that takes a little trial and error, but once you get it all set up, it's absolutely amazing and you have full control. FXpansion - Home

Pros: the most realistic drum module and samples on the market in my opinion. If you want real drums in a room, you got them instantly! Plenty of power in the program, loads of samples, mixing boards, effects, tweaks and you can plug an E kit right into it. The best thing about this module is how many samples per drum it is capable of playing. Imagine hitting a drum and having upto 256 different hits on that drum. It also features "Anti-machine gun" mode which is an added plus for double kicks, fast tom fills and intricate snares. Total velocity control and it will seemlessly integrate into your DAW as a VSTi so you can blast those old midi files right into it.

Cons: It's a lot like a Digitech 2101...meaning, it has options that have options that have options. A bit of a learning curve for the serious engineer, fairly easy for a beginner to just load up and go using factory presets. You will need a powerful system to run this baby as it eats computers for breakfast. I'd recommend at least 2 gig of RAM, a dedicated hard drive for the insane sample library and at least a dual core processor as large kits like mine can suck up 1gig of RAM just to run the thing. The reason for that is due to detail. The more you pump it up to sound good quality wise, the more it's gonna eat. You can use it in 16 bit mode and scale it down as well, so it WILL work for just about anyone...even on a slower system, but you sacrifice quality for that. Price is a bit steep too, but again, if you're serious about your drum sound, $400 is pretty cheap when it comes to something like this.

EZDrummer: I've been messing with this quite a bit and have to say, I think it's a pretty good program with some killer sounds. Very easy to use and pretty effective. The kits are somewhat lame other than the pop/rock stock kit and the DFH kit. The Nash kit is decent if you like that kinda sound, but I have other things that I think do that sound better so it's not something I dig. It lacks options and control, however, I have found work-arounds for this. I like to have full control over every drum, mic and room ambience. This wasn't possible with this module for me coming out of the gate, but with some extensive trial and error, it IS possible. It just takes a long time to create a custom template for it to work this way. I don't like how you don't have any control over the crash and ride and how you don't get enough outputs to run things individually. But, like I said...I figured out a way to do it running multiple instances of EZD so I really do have individual instrument control now. It's just not easy to set up that way. But, if you have a DAW that allows to you save templates, you do the work one time and you have it for life. Toontrack

Pros: so EZ, a caveman can use it! Good sounds, humanizer feature rocks and makes a huge difference, never crashes and is a reliable module. Price is more than fair for what you get out of it.

Cons: needs more cool sounds, takes forever to load up no matter how fast your box is, needs more outs for individual instrument control, would be nice to be able to create custom kits in full instead of just loading up the few instruments they give you. You CAN kinda create a custom kit, but then you have to revert back to my work-around which will have you using at least 5 EZD modules at the same time. Not enough individual drum hits per sample. BFD spoiled me with the capability of 256 hits per drum.

[Danny Danzi]

Steven Slate Drums: I've been a SSD user for quite some time. He first hit the scene for me creating samples for Drumagog and had one of the coolest libraries around which I still use. Then Steven decided to break into the market of having his own drum module like BFD and EZD. The new SSD Platinum is pretty outrageous. He's made a module that loads up into a Native Instruments module that has all his stuff embedded into it. It's a lot like BFD in many ways yet simpler to use. Signature kits are a part of the package with Metallica, Chilli Peps, Dream Theater, Tommy Lee, John Bonham, Green Day and a few more. Loads of killer sounds, great interface, effects, mixing board, works in standalone with an E kit as well as VSTi and you get quite a bit of bang for the buck with this at $329.00. Welcome to Steven Slate Drums

Pros: loads of drum sounds, intuitive mixer and console, killer effects built in, low cpu usage, massive control over the drums as well as custom kits, individual drum out control. Signature kits included! Did I mention a load of drum sounds?!

Cons: doesn't appear to support loops where you can drag and drop like other drum modules. However, you can feed a midi through it using your DAW program and it will play off of it perfectly. I mentioned it gives you loads of sounds...and it does! But, the quality of those sounds sometimes didn't do anything for me. I'm not crazy about the majority of the tom sounds and some of the hats. But the kicks, snares, crashes and rides are pretty killer.

Ocean Way Drums: The interface on this is exactly like Steve Slates, but the sounds are different. Again, no loop ability. I won't even give this a pro or a con because I didn't like it at all. I was actually upset by how bad these sounds are considering Ocean Way studios is supposed to be noted and recognized for pumping out good drum tones. Stay away from this one....it's useless and costs a bundle!

Strike: I got this for my MAC to use it on my Pro Tools rig. It's got some killer samples, but I didn't like it. Tried it on my pc as well and it was a bit buggy there. Works best on the MAC. There are issues with the midi mapping that will drive ANYONE ballistic! Everyone I know that's used this has said the same about it with the midi mapping. It's cool to drop loops into, the sounds are cool, but anything you import or try to record is gonna drive you nuts for a while...and you may decide to just turn off your sh!t due to frustration.

Pros: Good sounds, easy to use for loops, resonably priced, better for MAC than pc.

Cons: Ugly interface just like Pro Tools LOL! Midi mapping is the downfall. Not recommended for PC.

Drumagog: I've tried a few of these types of programs but only 2 stick out to me. Beat Detective and my beloved, Drumagog. Everything else falls ways short in my opinion. If you want a program that is capable of resampling a kit, Drumagog is for you. It's so incredible, one time I was on the phone with my friend Brian helping him install Sonar 8. As we were waiting for the program to load, I started barking into my mic..."boom...boom boom boom"...then "bap bap bap"...then "tiisss tissss tissss".

All the while, Brian is laughing at me saying "dude, wtf are you doing over there?!" I said..watch this man...loaded up 3 instances of Drumagog, and it played real drums over the voices I had recorded!!! You don't even need anything but a voice to trigger the darned thing. LOL!! It works like this...

Any wave that is running will trigger it. It's upto you to select the drum sample you want and how much threshold to apply before the sample triggers. The drum samples in it are in sample pools. Each sample pool will contain a certain amount of different drum hits per sample. So, if you select a kick or a snare, in that pool will be 20 or 30 different hits of the same kick or snare. It triggers off of the velocity of the wave you have running into it and can be custom set to your needs. You can also split up the sample pools and tell them when to trigger when a certain dB is reached on a particular drum sound. The stock sample library you get with it (over 4GB) is really nice and you can create your own samples to run through it at any time. It works with midi as well and can even integrate into BFD 2 if you buy Drumagog Platinum. There are 3 versions...the basic one, pro and platinum. I use quite a bit of my own sampled sounds that I've created but there are expansion packs you can buy many others like Steven Slate as well as my good friend E at Supersonic Samples on the Drumagog site. Use my name if you buy from E and tell him I sent you. Drumagog Drum Replacer Plug-In

Pros: nothing touches this program in my humble opinion if resampling is your game. Take a crap drumkit and turn it into a lethal weapon...or simply record your voice and apply it to the tracks! Midi capable..can be used in real time, low cpu use and the stock sounds are fantastic! Entry level version is $199.

Cons: Nothing really...it's perfect other than certain DAW programs may be a bit tough to configure it for midi unless you run a little program called DirectiXer. A bit pricey for the Plat version, but well worth it if you want to use BFD with it at the same time...which rocks!

Hope this helps a few people in the drum module market.

[fHumble fHingaz]

Nice overview, Danny... Have you checked out Addictive Drums? It's probably similar in some ways to EZ Drummer, although a little deeper. Not a huge drum instrument like some you've mentioned here, but excellent nonetheless. Fairly simple to use, & a good variety of kits available; Not so many though, that you suffer a nervous breakdown from option anxiety! The extensive effects supplied are excellent - definitely not subtle by any stretch of the imagination; you really know when you're using them! Don't make the mistake of just using the over-compressed "wiz-bang" presets - They sound impressive, but often they won't suit your song... Start with the "Dry" kits & create your own. I've heard some very good drum tracks here at RR created with AD.

[Danny Danzi]

Thanks fHumble, nice review yourself there. Yeah I'm familiar with AD and actually have it and have used it in other peoples studio's....I just haven't installed it on MY system yet. It's like EZD's big brother with more options and control. I don't know why I didn't mention it in my post, but you pretty much covered what I would have said. Nice job!

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

Drumagog: I've tried a few of these types of programs but only 2 stick out to me. Beat Detective and my beloved, Drumagog. Everything else falls ways short in my opinion. If you want a program that is capable of resampling a kit, Drumagog is for you. It's so incredible, one time I was on the phone with my friend Brian helping him install Sonar 8. As we were waiting for the program to load, I started barking into my mic..."boom...boom boom boom"...then "bap bap bap"...then "tiisss tissss tissss".

All the while, Brian is laughing at me saying "dude, wtf are you doing over there?!" I said..watch this man...loaded up 3 instances of Drumagog, and it played real drums over the voices I had recorded!!! You don't even need anything but a voice to trigger the darned thing. LOL!! It works like this...

Any wave that is running will trigger it. It's upto you to select the drum sample you want and how much threshold to apply before the sample triggers. The drum samples in it are in sample pools. Each sample pool will contain a certain amount of different drum hits per sample. So, if you select a kick or a snare, in that pool will be 20 or 30 different hits of the same kick or snare. It triggers off of the velocity of the wave you have running into it and can be custom set to your needs. You can also split up the sample pools and tell them when to trigger when a certain dB is reached on a particular drum sound. The stock sample library you get with it (over 4GB) is really nice and you can create your own samples to run through it at any time. It works with midi as well and can even integrate into BFD 2 if you buy Drumagog Platinum. There are 3 versions...the basic one, pro and platinum. I use quite a bit of my own sampled sounds that I've created but there are expansion packs you can buy many others like Steven Slate as well as my good friend E at Supersonic Samples on the Drumagog site. Use my name if you buy from E and tell him I sent you. Drumagog Drum Replacer Plug-In

Pros: nothing touches this program in my humble opinion if resampling is your game. Take a crap drumkit and turn it into a lethal weapon...or simply record your voice and apply it to the tracks! Midi capable..can be used in real time, low cpu use and the stock sounds are fantastic! Entry level version is $199.

Cons: Nothing really...it's perfect other than certain DAW programs may be a bit tough to configure it for midi unless you run a little program called DirectiXer. A bit pricey for the Plat version, but well worth it if you want to use BFD with it at the same time...which rocks!

Hope this helps a few people in the drum module market.

As a user of drumagog for the past 2+ years I have to agree. Excellent summary. I've even made some of my own kick and snare samples.

Drumagog is used quite a bit in Nashville.

Have you tried the Steven Slate for drumagog yet? I've been thinking about getting his drumagog samples.

[Danny Danzi]

Hey brother T....yep I have the whole Steven Slate collection for Drumamgog a s well as his new module with a lot of the same sounds and some totally new ones. Pretty cool stuff.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

Hey brother T....yep I have the whole Steven Slate collection for Drumamgog a s well as his new module with a lot of the same sounds and some totally new ones. Pretty cool stuff.

Sold!

Thanks.

I do alot of country artists so I need some good kick and snare to match (well, get me in the ball park).

Nashville loves it kick drum (almost too much----sheesh).

I've been looking for a good snare sound, much like what was on the Lady Antebellum CD that Paul Worley produced.

Although they used a different snare on almost every song, they still got that clear, crack out of it.

More and more I'm getting specific requests for a certain kick and/or snare sound. Of course the band's drummer never has the kit that produces that sound, so some good samples are needed.

Drumagog also acts as a pretty good gate at the same time; great for reducing bleed (I'd never want to get rid of all the bleed though).

[Danny Danzi]

Hey Tony, not to go astray from the actual topic, but I'm curious....when you do your country bands....do you go for the modern pop country type sound where you're producing and really engineering or are they laid back mixes?

The reason I'm asking is, the stuff I do with the country guys I've worked with....is just like me doing an 80's rock album. Gated verb snares, layered back up vocals, processed rock guitar tones, loads of effects etc. I absolutely love doing these bands because there is more to them then just "hey, compress us and make us loud and clear" ya know? In my opinion, the country of today IS commercial rock for the most part.

What's the song that's been killing pretty good these days..."She's Country"....hear that yet? Freakin' killer rock guitar sound on that that's got that grind to it. Or even some of the Rascal Flatts stuff....that's kinda the production I get to do these days and man, I absolutely love it. I never thought I'd like that stuff, but it's so rock oriented with real production and killer hooks, I look forward to doing those bands these days.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

Hey Tony, not to go astray from the actual topic, but I'm curious....when you do your country bands....do you go for the modern pop country type sound where you're producing and really engineering or are they laid back mixes?

The reason I'm asking is, the stuff I do with the country guys I've worked with....is just like me doing an 80's rock album. Gated verb snares, layered back up vocals, processed rock guitar tones, loads of effects etc. I absolutely love doing these bands because there is more to them then just "hey, compress us and make us loud and clear" ya know? In my opinion, the country of today IS commercial rock for the most part.

What's the song that's been killing pretty good these days..."She's Country"....hear that yet? Freakin' killer rock guitar sound on that that's got that grind to it. Or even some of the Rascal Flatts stuff....that's kinda the production I get to do these days and man, I absolutely love it. I never thought I'd like that stuff, but it's so rock oriented with real production and killer hooks, I look forward to doing those bands these days.

Both, but modern country lately. Yeah it's commercial rock with some heavy classic rock influence just like "She's Country." You're right about the drums. I have a hard time believing it myself...has 80s flavor to them. Listen to the drums in Carrie Underwood's "Cowboy Casanova."
I just need to be careful not to "lose the country" in these modern country songs.
Long live Les Paul! :-)

[Danny Danzi]

Originally Posted by TonyB

Listen to the drums in Carrie Underwood's "Cowboy Casanova."
I just need to be careful not to "lose the country" in these modern country songs.
Long live Les Paul! :-)

Oh man, there's a great example!!! YES!!! Hahahaha! You know what I'm finding out though...as long as the lead singer has some twang and an accent going on, some slide or pedal steel etc...I can make it as hard, heavy or raunchy as I want and it STILL seems to sound killer. It's funny, I had a guy come to me with a session he did in Pro Tools. Thankfully he purchased the .OMF utility so I could bring the stuff right into Sonar. He told me he wanted the sound of that Rascal Flatts cover of "Life is a Highway" and I was like "oh hell yes!!!" I was in my glory there.

Came out perfect. But speaking of drums....none of my Drumagog samples gave me what I was looking for on that particular project. I had to dive into my own personal samples I've made (I'm a sneaky lil baystid...each time I do a session with a new drum kit, when the client leaves I'm sampling the entire kit to add to my arsenal. LOL!) as well as my Bob Clearmountain library. I used quite a few samples combined on that guy's kit but it made it sound huge.

I like the jobs where I can be the producer as well as the engineer....such a great challenge as well as a chance to use some creativity. Glad you're enjoying these types of bands and production as well. As long as I don't get those box-car Willy type country bands, I'm ok with it. Hahaha!