Standard dB Levels

[DutchDoctor]

Hi all,

This is most likely a really stupid question, but it's something I've always wondered and has never been answered for me.

When mixing/recording, my tracks always end up quieter than any professionally produced music I have..

Tracks are supposed to peak at 0dB right? That's the standard max volume?
Maybe it's my signal path, cutting the gain on tracks.

I have been using a shitty computer chaintech sound card with 3mm jacks after all... (upgrading asap)

Thanks,
Jake.

[richiebee]

Most probably the way its mixed, compression and brickwall limiting that stops you getting a commercial level.

[Xplora]

If I'm not wrong, the main advantage to expensive cards is a better noise floor, and hopefully slightly better tone.

So when you crank to 0dB, you've got less crap in the signal and you can push the "rest" of the mix harder. The peaks hit 0, and the dips are a lot closer to zero as well

[markiegiscool]

The idea is to get the quieter dips sounding louder, but it's not really as simple as that. Generally you will have to use compression to make the loud and quiet bits closer together, and most probably a limiter too. If you set a limiter at 0db, no sound will pass there, and you can then adjust the volume of the rest of the track.

However, pushing against a limiter too hard will result in nasty distortion noises, or something similar, which I why it's important to compress first.

I would try and find some kind of guide to link to, but I'm on work's computer and probably due a telling off for over-usage of the web anytime soon!

[MatsonMusicBox]

Couple points ....

1. The way to get "commercial CD levels", as noted, is through the use of multi-band compression and limiting, and after a good mix.
2. Peak volume as affected by normalizing has little to do with overall perceived volume whereas AVERAGE volume has much to do with it.
3. A limiter IS a compressor, just with an infinite (or very high) compression ratio and fast attack at the threshold.

HTH!

[DutchDoctor]

Thanks guys,
That made so much sense in so little words!

I'm very familiar with what compressors and limiters are, but my understanding comes from a more live sound situation - So of course more 'pre-mix' rather than using them 'post-mix'.

Well I'll have to try some new mixes once I get my new gear then.
Thanks!

[brandondrury]

If I'm not wrong, the main advantage to expensive cards is a better noise floor, and hopefully slightly better tone.

So when you crank to 0dB, you've got less crap in the signal and you can push the "rest" of the mix harder. The peaks hit 0, and the dips are a lot closer to zero as well

If an expensive audio interfaces had "dips that are a lot closer to zero" than that would mean the expensive audio interfade was manipulating the dynamics of the incoming signal. The whole idea of paying more for an audio interface is to be MORE transparent.

The way to get "commercial CD levels", as noted, is through the use of multi-band compression and limiting, and after a good mix.

I'd say multi-band compression isn't really required to get loud, but limiting definitely is.

My clients have been pleased with the level of my mixes the past 6 months or so. There are some realizations that have to be made.

- For rock, pop, country, and metal you can't rely on level to make the drums sound good. The drums should pop out without needed to peak through the rest of the mix. The best way to achieve this is a) to start with good sounding drums in the first place, and b) use parallel compression with the fast compressor known to man, knock off maybe 12dB, and blend that in with the original drum bus.
- I discuss my "Domino Theory of Mixing" in my home recording book, but I think most of the lack of volume problems start with a bass sound that is not nearly big enough. I make the bass as big and loud as possible when I mix. When the drums sound good peaking at -10dB the bass is as huge as it can get (often boosting 100-200Hz and nuking 400Hz) then I add the other elements. By the end of the mix, the bass doesn't seem to sound stupidly loud at all. It's amazing just how low I was mixing my bass guitars before.

- A high shelf boost on the 2bus before the limiter has a way of making a mix come alive. I learned this one from Wagener in his recording workshop. You make everything as thick and chunky as possible during tracking and then you toss a high shelf boost on the entire mix to bring everything to life. This can add dramatically to the clarity and the apparent volume of a mix without adding substantially to the actual level.

- Be aggressive with the brickwall limiter. Take a look at some of your favorite albums and it won't take long to see that nothing gets through the peaks.

Brandon

[GP Systems]

Be cautious with compression though! It is easy to lose and squeeze all the dynamics out of your tracks. This is a big problem with todays music. One tool that I have found incredibly useful in bringing up overall volume levels, while maintaining some resemblance of Dynamic range integrity, is the Bus Compressor that is bundled with SSL's Duende. I found this plugin shocking in how effective it was while still being very transparent.

[dwood]

Hi,

Wow, I just can't keep up with the terminology. "multi-band compression, knock off maybe 12dB, original drum bus, drums sound good peaking at -10dB the bass is as huge as it can get (often boosting 100-200Hz and nuking 400Hz), A high shelf boost on the 2bus before the limiter has a way of making a mix come alive..."

I need to stop being embarrassed about not understanding this stuff. Any recommendations for a "dummies" type piece of reading that would make this seem less like an alien language to me? I guess an accessible, readable introduction to recording principles is sorta what I'm looking for, without feeling like I'm reading a scientific textbook.

Brandon, I look forward to seeing your book, it sounds perfect for someone like me.

Cheers

[brandondrury]

It is easy to lose and squeeze all the dynamics out of your tracks. This is a big problem with todays music.

This is EXACTLY what 90% of my clients want because it's exactly what 90% of their favorite bands are doing for better or worse.

I need to stop being embarrassed about not understanding this stuff. Any recommendations for a "dummies" type piece of reading that would make this seem less like an alien language to me? I guess an accessible, readable introduction to recording principles is sorta what I'm looking for, without feeling like I'm reading a scientific textbook.

All of this junk will be in the book. In the mean time, make a post in audio engineering and we'll help with all the definitions.

Brandon