Reverb Problem - Urgent Help Needed

[ibanezman_98]

Hi Guys,

I have received my Master CD proof two days ago from this Mastering Studio in NJ.
I have to admit that it really IS beneficial to use “fresh pair of ears”, and if you can afford it, let somebody else do the mastering for you (if you have previously spent many hours of recording and mixing your own material).

However, I have encountered an unusual reverb phenomenon, if I can call it like that.
My CD is in instrumental Progressive Rock genre, with lead guitars as the main melody instrument (instead of a voice as usual).

In some of the songs, this lead guitar seems to be “soaked” into reverb.
-When I use headphones, and my studio monitors, the mix appears to be fine. I doesn’t sound like I applied too much of a reverb.
-When I used live PA to test this CD, and bigger (and more expen$ive) studio monitors at my friend’s studio, and listened to it on a much higher volume, lead guitar sounds 3-5 dB quieter, and almost completely “drowned” by reverb.
It seems that this mix is OK for iPod users, but if I want to play this CD on a live gig (during the break time), it is not so effective.

Here is some info about the lead track and gear I used:

-recorded stereo from GT-8 via digital connection (clean signal, great S to N ratio, all effects bypassed, no buzzing noise) straight to the sound card and SONAR 7
-panned in the center
-have used only EQ and stereo reverb FX, both as inserts on the same channel in SONAR (no buses)

The only possible diagnosis that I can think of is: use of stereo instead of mono reverb.

Did anybody encounter the similar thing, or does someone have a theory about this?
I have to fix my mix ASAP and send it back to this Mastering Studio, but not sure how to proceed. Any help is sincerely appreciated.

Thx

DDD

[thesilentdrummer]

First, try posting a snippet or sample of one of the songs that has a problem a problem right here. Second, does the pre-mastered version have the same reverb problem? If so, its an issue on the mixing end and I think the only thing you can do is tweak the settings on the insert to try to get it to sound better. If There is no reverb issue on the pre-mastered version, then the mastering folks messed up. either way, talk to the guys at the mastering place to see if you can get things ironed out.

[lolzgreg]

Originally Posted by ibanezman_98

-have used only EQ and stereo reverb FX, both as inserts on the same channel in SONAR (no buses)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

You diagnosed your own problem. You used your reverb as an INSERT and not as a SEND (bussing). If you're using your reverb as an insert, it is affecting/altering the signal as a WHOLE, not "adding" reverb TO the dry signal as any guitar reverb processor would normally do!

Try putting the reverb as a bussed effect and send that sucker to the guitar channels. It should be fine after (or let's hope so).

Good luck,

-Greg

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by lolgreg

You used your reverb as an INSERT and not as a SEND (bussing). If you're using your reverb as an insert, it is affecting/altering the signal as a WHOLE, not "adding" reverb TO the dry signal as any guitar reverb processor would normally do!

That COULD be a problem. A lot of reverb effects have a wet/dry percentage slider, or some kind of "mix" slider that acts like a send slider. I don't think its as bug a problem as it could be since it sounds different on different systems.

[lolzgreg]

Originally Posted by thesilentdrummer

That COULD be a problem. A lot of reverb effects have a wet/dry percentage slider, or some kind of "mix" slider that acts like a send slider. I don't think its as bug a problem as it could be since it sounds different on different systems.

I've never heard of ANYONE using a reverb as an insert unless they're deliberately trying to make the instrument sound like a huge mushy blob/push it back so far in the mix that it has no body. We'll find out when sir ibanez tries it out.

-Greg

[brandondrury]

You diagnosed your own problem. You used your reverb as an INSERT and not as a SEND (bussing). If you're using your reverb as an insert, it is affecting/altering the signal as a WHOLE, not "adding" reverb TO the dry signal as any guitar reverb processor would normally do!

The only reason not to put reverb on as an insert is to make due with a limited number of instances of reverb or to save CPU power. Almost all reverbs have a mix percentage control and this therefore makes it entirely possible to use a reverb in this situation. I may not be the best habit to get into but I don't think it is causing the problem.

This problem can be caused by two things.
#1) Multiband compression has a way of really screwing with the way that reverb levels sound from system to system. Don't ask me why, but I have personally encountered this often over the years.

#2) If the lead guitar is being cut out of the center, this suggests that there is a problem with phasing in the chain. If the snare, kick, and center panned tracks get strange on a set of speakers, it's possible that this system or the system you mixed on has a the polarity flipped on one of the monitors. If this isn't the case, it's very possible that something in the mix is cancelling that center out.

Wait a minute. You said you recorded a stereo guitar track out of your Boss, but then used a mono reverb. I'll bet money that this is the cause.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Brandon

[J_Carlo]

If the problem shows up only on the mastered version , then the problem is on mastering. Call the mastering engineer and explain the problem. He should be able to fix it.

[adorian]

First thing to ask is whether your mixed recording has the same problem as the mastered recording? It is quite possible that the mastering engineer added a touch of verb to gel things. Compare both at the same volume (you'd probably need to crank the unmastered version to same sound level).

I think you have 2 problems - you recorded the track in stereo and slapped stereo verb on it.
I'd say first buss the verb as others have suggested and also narrow the panning field of your main track, say if you had L at 64 and R at 64 make them all panned at say L16/R16.

Another thing - go low on the reverb this time and maybe add a bit of compression to your guitar.

[brandondrury]

Another thing - go low on the reverb this time and maybe add a bit of compression to your guitar.

How in the world can you possible recommend this without hearing his mix?

Brandon

[adorian]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

How in the world can you possible recommend this without hearing his mix?

Brandon

To cite the guy:
"In some of the songs, this lead guitar seems to be “soaked” into reverb."

When you master a song it is possible to boost the reverb frequencies as well when you apply compression and brickwall limiter, which is probably my guess as to what happened. My guess is that his original verb was a little too much in the mix too, and the mastering accented that. My main premise is that instrumentalists always seem to use more delay and reverb on their mixes, just something that I've encountered in my professional work as an audio engineer.