Help! Muddy Sounds, need advice

[The Riviera]

I am a newb here, so I'll get right down to it.

I just finished a track that I like, but my vocals take up too much of the soundfield, or whatever you would call it. What I am looking for are people's "basic" guidelines on how to position vocals, drums, etc.. into a mix. I have seen posts about keeping kicks under "something" and eliminating sound near the vocal frequency range.

Is there some info I can read that talks about basics that can teach me how to place instruments into there own neat frequency to keep the song from getting muddy? I mainly use Synths, vocals and drums for industrial/electronic stuff, with a dash of trip hop.

All help is appreciated and I look forward to being a regular here. I will have to upload some work in the near future. Really cool site, I have to say. Good work, Brandon!

Tools.....Komplete 5, Virus TI, midi controllers and pro tools8. Oh, and I love my Metasonix scrotum smasher(in small doses).

Thanks for your time!

[whomper]

Originally Posted by The Riviera

I am a newb here, so I'll get right down to it.

I just finished a track that I like, but my vocals take up too much of the soundfield, or whatever you would call it. What I am looking for are people's "basic" guidelines on how to position vocals, drums, etc.. into a mix. I have seen posts about keeping kicks under "something" and eliminating sound near the vocal frequency range.

Is there some info I can read that talks about basics that can teach me how to place instruments into there own neat frequency to keep the song from getting muddy? I mainly use Synths, vocals and drums for industrial/electronic stuff, with a dash of trip hop.

All help is appreciated and I look forward to being a regular here. I will have to upload some work in the near future. Really cool site, I have to say. Good work, Brandon!

Tools.....Komplete 5, Virus TI, midi controllers and pro tools8. Oh, and I love my Metasonix scrotum smasher(in small doses).

Thanks for your time!

lots of books will tell you what to do to get started
some more advanced ones too

check out your library

[drgamble]

You could start with hi pass filtering. I like to start out higher than I need to and then move the filter down to add more lows if I need them. Then I like to set a narrow Q on my EQ and set it for a steep cut and sweep through the frequencies until I hear what I want then I adjust the gain to taste. EQ is an art and takes time to train the ear.

[The Riviera]

Drgamble,

Had to google Q but now I am understanding what you are saying. So, you would say it's best to eq on a graphical eq as opposed to a standard knob based one(also a sharper curve i imagine)? I usually use the joemeekualizer, but i am betting a 5 or 7 band eq would be a good place to start. I am speaking pro tools plugins by the way. Thanks!

My mistake that I can see is I am trying to add presence in my voice via bass. That must be my problem. Gets mudy with bass lines and percussion. Thinking too much about the standard radio voice. I suppose those guys WANT to hog all the room because its the only thing a listener hears. I will report on my findings.

Any books or links that have helped anyone would be nice. But I will browse the how to use eq books and posts for now.

[mindundermatter]

I am trying to add presence in my voice via bass.

The 'presence' range is between 2.5-5kHz, so you're not even close.

Is there some info I can read that talks about basics that can teach me how to place instruments into there own neat frequency to keep the song from getting muddy?

That's called 'mixing' buddy. Why is this post in the mastering forum? And why are you asking a question that entire books have been written about? I want to help you, believe me, I do. I just can't think of how to explain to you signal flow, how to use EQ, compression, reverb, delay, panning, dynamics, automation, dealing with phase issues, psychoacoustics, monitor placement, and about a million other things in one thread of a recording forum.

Any books or links that have helped anyone would be nice

The Recording Engineer's Handbook by Bob Owsinski
Sound FX by Alexander Case
Mixing Audio by Roey Izhaki
Understanding Audio by Daniel Thompson
The Desktop Studio by Emile Menasche
Modern Recording Techniques by David Miles Huber
Recording Tips for Engineers by Tim Crich

The first one and the last one have been my bibles for a while, and the second one was a real eye-opener as far as explaining things in an 'oh that makes sense now' kind of way.

[whomper]

Originally Posted by The Riviera

Drgamble,

Had to google Q but now I am understanding what you are saying. So, you would say it's best to eq on a graphical eq as opposed to a standard knob based one(also a sharper curve i imagine)? I usually use the joemeekualizer, but i am betting a 5 or 7 band eq would be a good place to start. I am speaking pro tools plugins by the way. Thanks!

My mistake that I can see is I am trying to add presence in my voice via bass. That must be my problem. Gets mudy with bass lines and percussion. Thinking too much about the standard radio voice. I suppose those guys WANT to hog all the room because its the only thing a listener hears. I will report on my findings.

Any books or links that have helped anyone would be nice. But I will browse the how to use eq books and posts for now.

browse a lot of glossarys
and be sure you are using the right word too
presence comes from higher freqs
trying for "presence" by adding bass makes no sense

but maybe you mean somehting else when you say muddy or presence etc. a lot of these terms can be vague andor have unintuitive defintions -- so learn the vocabulary first

and in doing so you will find some people saying different things about a given word
red flag!! that word is not going to mean the same thing to everybody so you need to tell us what you mean exactly

[The Riviera]

I will try and move this post if I can, but I appreciate both of your advice. Audio is still so new to me. I am just trying to learn as much as I can. Spent the last 2 years figuring out synthesis and pro tools and have almost no vocal experience.

I completely understand my lack of vocabulary when it comes to Eqing. I will try and be more specific in my upcoming posts. Thanks guys!

[drgamble]

You can also check out the thread about starter EQ settings. Good luck. You should post a mix so people can help you in bash this recording.

[shackman]

Originally Posted by mindundermatter

The 'presence' range is between 2.5-5kHz, so you're not even close.

Hey Mind. Just thought I'd say: Your encyclopeadic knowledge of frequency ranges is IMPRESSIVE!!.

Genuinely interested in whether, when you're in the studio you look at a track and say "that bass should be in range X to Y" and mix accordingly, or whether, ultimately, EARS play a bigger part in the process.

I'm NOT being sarcastic and I KNOW how touchy people get. Guess I'm trying to figure otu whether I need further study of such things instead of "muddling along".

[mindundermatter]

Originally Posted by shackman

Hey Mind. Just thought I'd say: Your encyclopeadic knowledge of frequency ranges is IMPRESSIVE!!.

Genuinely interested in whether, when you're in the studio you look at a track and say "that bass should be in range X to Y" and mix accordingly, or whether, ultimately, EARS play a bigger part in the process.

I'm NOT being sarcastic and I KNOW how touchy people get. Guess I'm trying to figure otu whether I need further study of such things instead of "muddling along".

No, the ears ALWAYS come first. However, this 'encyclopedic knowledge' gives me a great starter point. For example, in this case, I might listen and say "I need more presence" and therefore I'd pull up a parametric somewhere in that range and go from there.