Getting the maximum volume from a recording

[Metaltyme]

OK...so I think I "get" the overall point of "mixing" and what that achieves. So, to preface, I am attempting make a possibly stupid question a good open-ended question with real potential to yield a satisfactory learning experience. My question is this: To get the loudest possible "Master" of a mix, what does that depend on, and how do we go about approaching it?

Lately, when I'm working on a new project, I'm recording at 96 kHz at an input level who's max in volume occurs before any clipping, i.e. I get it to the maximum point of "green" I can without seeing any red (clipping) occurances. At the end of it all, up through mixing, things sound great as I mix fairly quietly on my monitors. I'm not sure if I read somewhere in the past month or so that keeping the levels of each track in a mix substantially below 0 Db is ideal, as that allows for "headroom," which I read is good to have when "mastering" a mixdown of a song.

In my latest recording, I followed such steps through the mixing stage, and everything sounded emaculate, crystal clear, and balanced. However, if I converted that freshly mixed down WAV to an mp3 (320), it's way too quiet on my IPOD compared to some of the commercial songs on there. The song sounds great though when I cut it up. That's all well and good, but when I use my IPOD in my car, I'll not hear too much hiss of white noise during commercial songs. But, because my song is so much quieter, I hear terrible hiss. When I listen to my finished song on my monitors at any level in my home studio, there is no hiss at all. Not any at all. Now, I understand that listening to your IPOD in the car is not going to be CD quality and there will be some subtle hissing occuring during quiet parts of any song, but there is a highly detectable "hiss" in my song as I have to crank up my car's volume to reach an ideal listening level.

I understand very little about compression and limiting, but I do know that these are common tools used to reach what I'm (we're all) after. Can some of you experienced gurus out there please shed some light in as much detail as possible on what order you use such tools to get the max volume of your mixes?

I basically have what I call an ideal mix going on, would like some feedback on how to approach getting that "as-close-to-commercial" volume as possible. Any help would be ridiculously appreciated. I've scoured this site for specific, definitive approaches...but, they've been very scarce and not specific enough for a newb such as myself. What I'm really looking for is a little tutorial on how a "limiter" works in conjunction with compression, as I have little to no experience with either. Please help.

[richiebee]

I use compressors on individual channels, then a really light amount of compression on the main outs, and a limiter with as heavy a setting as needed to do the job.

I guess you want to balance the quality of sound with the amount of loudness. We can all squeeze the shit out of the music, but when you do, it sounds like shit.

There are different schools of thought on when you should add your limiter (lets call it the master limiter) into the mix. I do it first. I find that over using a limiter during mixing really helps to bring out problems in your mix (EQ/balance)... fix the problems, end up with a really nice balanced mix, then ease of the limiting so that the artifacts aren't so noticeable/objectionable.

I picked up Voxengo's Elephant a couple of months back. It's a very transparent limiter in my opinion. Excellent results.

R.

[Metaltyme]

Originally Posted by richiebee

I use compressors on individual channels, then a really light amount of compression on the main outs, and a limiter with as heavy a setting as needed to do the job.

I guess you want to balance the quality of sound with the amount of loudness. We can all squeeze the shit out of the music, but when you do, it sounds like shit.

There are different schools of thought on when you should add your limiter (lets call it the master limiter) into the mix. I do it first. I find that over using a limiter during mixing really helps to bring out problems in your mix (EQ/balance)... fix the problems, end up with a really nice balanced mix, then ease of the limiting so that the artifacts aren't so noticeable/objectionable.

I picked up Voxengo's Elephant a couple of months back. It's a very transparent limiter in my opinion. Excellent results.

R.

That is great. Thank you richiebee. That clues me in a little more than where I started. So, basically you can apply that "mastering limiter" as much as you need as long as the "pumping effect" (and other undesirables) doesn't seep in.

I have checked out some of the literature on that Voxengo Elephant Limiter since I saw it as a prize the runner ups can win through the Halloween Song Contest. Sounds pretty neat. So, by "transparent," does that mean that theoretically, you can apply more of the "limiting" before actually hearing any of those undesirables? If so, sounds amazing. Thanks again.

[Metaltyme]

Anyone else have something or anything else to add? I'd love to hear other, or similar, approaches if possible.

[MatsonMusicBox]

the general approach is multiband limiting, compression, etc. There are MANY choices for how to get there - various plug-ins, etc. I use Wavelab and the Ozone 3 mastering suite which includes the mujlti-band, loudness limiting, EQ, mastering reverb, and harmonix processing. Wavelab let's me metwr quite a bit as it's playing (ie RMS power) as well as do analsyis on the mastered waveform - seeing the average RMS (which equates to overall perceived volume). There are other tools that will do the same similar.

An average RMS of around -10 get's you to commercial volume most of the time.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by MatsonMusicBox

the general approach is multiband limiting, compression, etc. There are MANY choices for how to get there - various plug-ins, etc. I use Wavelab and the Ozone 3 mastering suite which includes the mujlti-band, loudness limiting, EQ, mastering reverb, and harmonix processing. Wavelab let's me metwr quite a bit as it's playing (ie RMS power) as well as do analsyis on the mastered waveform - seeing the average RMS (which equates to overall perceived volume). There are other tools that will do the same similar.

An average RMS of around -10 get's you to commercial volume most of the time.

This is pretty much how I do it as well. The trick is getting a good balance of perceived loudness versus perceived fullness.

Bringing the RMS up as much as possible (yes, -10 should do depending on the song) will give that "fuller" loud sound (if that makes any sense).

And don't forget EQ. In the mastering stage (i.e., got the stereo mixdown in WAV) I typically start with the EQ. High shelf abit and maybe bring down the low end abit. The term "abit" is intentional; don't want to do to much; the more you do the more you can bring the entire mix out of whack, which affects your overall perceived "fullness" and "loudness."

Bring up too much high shelf and you'll wonder what happened the low end. Yeah, it's loud, but not full. The loud you hear is too much high shelf above 2khz (for example). it's loud and piercing to your ears, but not loud and full.

[Metaltyme]

Hmmm...sounds interesting. I like where this is heading for me. I'll apply this new knowledge to a stereo mix I've got going on. I appreciate you guys' feedback. Off to the cave I go!

[brandondrury]

the general approach is multiband limiting

I only use multiband limiting / compression when I'm desperate. It's a powerful tool that can do some great things but it can cause enormous amount of damage as well. They have to be used extremely subtly. In most cases, I feel they are necessary if you got the mix right.

I've got an entire chapter in that god forsaken creation of mine I'm calling my home recording book dedicated to this loudness business.

In short, if you are doing rock music, you've GOT to get the drums to sound really loud without using a whole lot of peak level. The only way I know do to that is to send an aux of the kick, snare, and sometimes toms to a compressor with an attack of 0ms. I knock off a max of 12dB. Lately, I've been playing around with the URS 1980 compressor and I've really liked the sound of a release of 75ms or so. This gets blended in with the drum bus and allows me to use dramatically less peak level in my drums.

The rest pretty much takes care of itself. If we are doing a rock/metal mix make the bass as big and mean as you can. Then pull up the guitars and make them as big and mean as you can without stomping on vocals or anything else. When you are getting close toss a brickwall limiter on there and start smashing the hell out of it. (Richiebee is right about how you can expose problem areas by overdoing this.)

I've also really got into toss a high shelf boost on pretty much all my mixes. I call it the "life" button.

Brandon

[Metaltyme]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I only use multiband limiting / compression when I'm desperate. It's a powerful tool that can do some great things but it can cause enormous amount of damage as well. They have to be used extremely subtly. In most cases, I feel they are necessary if you got the mix right.

I've got an entire chapter in that god forsaken creation of mine I'm calling my home recording book dedicated to this loudness business.

In short, if you are doing rock music, you've GOT to get the drums to sound really loud without using a whole lot of peak level. The only way I know do to that is to send an aux of the kick, snare, and sometimes toms to a compressor with an attack of 0ms. I knock off a max of 12dB. Lately, I've been playing around with the URS 1980 compressor and I've really liked the sound of a release of 75ms or so. This gets blended in with the drum bus and allows me to use dramatically less peak level in my drums.

The rest pretty much takes care of itself. If we are doing a rock/metal mix make the bass as big and mean as you can. Then pull up the guitars and make them as big and mean as you can without stomping on vocals or anything else. When you are getting close toss a brickwall limiter on there and start smashing the hell out of it. (Richiebee is right about how you can expose problem areas by overdoing this.)

I've also really got into toss a high shelf boost on pretty much all my mixes. I call it the "life" button.

Brandon

Sheesh, this one thread has been very informative! Thanks everyobody. Brandon, when you get that book ready to sell btw, I'll definitely buy one. Thanks for the tips. I will definitely give this stuff a try. Later.

[ikea boy]

you might consider PSP Audioware . I have own several of there products and have found my purchases very helpful. "The ****er " is hawt!