Superior Drummer 2.0 Mixer Soundclips

[brandondrury]

While it's a bit early to give a comprehensive review of the Superior Drummer 2.0 (I've had it about 2 days), I wanted to write to describe how impressed I am with the mixer.

My copy of Toontrack's Superior Drummer 2.0 just came in the other day. I have to say that I'm extremely impressed. It's actually better sounding than they let on. I'll give a full blown review sometime down the road, but in this short blog I wanted to show the Superior Drummer 2.0 mixer.

In the default setup, Superior Drummer 2.0 actually comes with it's own mixing software with EQ, compression, transient designer, and a handful of other things. All of these combine within Superior 2.0 and are ran into a single stereo track within Cubase, but can be routed to individual inputs in Cubase.

At first I was a bit concerned that this mixer wouldn't do what I wanted. I thought I would be stuck with so-so plugins, less control, and basically be less happy than with the method used on DFH Superior 1.0 where each drum track was routed to an individual track in Cubase.

The Plugins Are Great
First I must say that I've been very happy with the EQ, compression, and other effects built into the mixer. The way that Superior Drummer 2.0 tracked and the way the busses are setup in the mixer, the possibilities are enormous.

Actually Usable Presets
I've not been shy about my disdain for presets. Presets can take the attention away from tweaking to find the sound to scrolling through endless menus. Presets can take the emphasis away from listening and put you in some dumbed down state.

In DFH Superior 1.0, I have to admit that I seldom thought the stock sound was exactly what a given song called for. In fact, it only happened a few times. I was always going for something else. It takes a while to play with EQ, compression, levels, etc to squeeze new sounds out of drums. It was very possible to do with took quite a bit of time. This was time I did not have when I wanted to create.

The new mixer has allowed Toontrack to create drum samples that are very natural and neutral if you want them to be or very processed. The cool part is they can do the processing for you if you choose to use their available presets. In more primitive sample libraries, you were stuck with either natural sounds or the processed sounds in the library. If these processed sounds weren't ideal for the song, you had to compromise or get creative.

Take A Listen
Here's the default kit in Superior Drummer 2.0 (which sounds GREAT!) where I've went through and simply selected a mixer preset. It needs to be said that I've done is used different mixer presets and nothing else. The raw audio from the triggered samples is exactly the same. You still have numerous options with the drum kit (different kicks, snares, toms, cymbals, etc). Of course, no one says you can't tweak. I like the idea of selecting “X” preset that gives me very close to the sound I'm looking for and then tweaking from there.

Educational Benefits Of These Mixer Presets
The beginning dude in the world of audio engineering may not be comfortable with parallel compression and various advanced mixing techniques. That person will be very happy with the mixer presets in Superior Drummer 2.0. I think it's cool that when the person is willing to dig a little deeper, they can see exactly what the Toontrack engineers came up with to get a sound this way or that way. “How did they add so much attack and crack to X sound”. Now you can simply solo individual busses until you find the bus with the tremendous attack. Take a look at what they did and you instantly learn a huge audio engineering less.

[brandondrury]

Here is some more.

[Ruzz]

I haven't tried Superior but I use EZDrummer. Question for you Brandon, does Superior offer - er... superior crash cymbal sounds? Specifically, once struck, do the crashes fade away naturally? None of the crashes in EZD fade properly - they all get kinda cut off with a sudden fader drop after a couple secs. This isn't so noticable mid-song, but at the end of a song it sounds shit - you know the kinda thing - bing, bang, bishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - can't be done realistically in EZD.

Ruzz

[brandondrury]

Specifically, once struck, do the crashes fade away naturally?

I just went and checked. They all sounded good to me. They decayed in what I call a very natural way.

Brandon

[Money Shot]

Hey now. It appears you can do what your heart desires. I know this has an eq, high-low pass, gate etc... But would you probably use all that stuff all the time or just some of it sometimes? What's your most commonly used plug-in in the past few days? Also, since you're able to mix your drums before they're in cubase, what kind of mixing is needed once in the mix itself? I assume only some eq.

[Xplora]

Diggin' the kick sound. Very strong. I like the variation of the various snares and ambiences, but there is no way I'd spend the money - I gotta get some value from DFHS v1 first!

[Money Shot]

I gotta get some value from DFHS v1 first!

DFHS is awesome. The only problem I have with it is that I know what it sounds like and can tell when someone is using it.

[brandondrury]

Hey now. It appears you can do what your heart desires. I know this has an eq, high-low pass, gate etc... But would you probably use all that stuff all the time or just some of it sometimes? What's your most commonly used plug-in in the past few days? Also, since you're able to mix your drums before they're in cubase, what kind of mixing is needed once in the mix itself? I assume only some eq.

On rock drums, I use quite a bit of plugins. I'll start immediately with a compressor on the 2bus working fairly subtly to either accent the attack or to reduce it a hair (usually accenting it). I usually EQ in one way or another. The rest really depends. It's rare that I don't gate the toms, EQ the kick, put a high pass on the overheads, etc. I sometimes compress the snare or kick individually. I usually have parallel compression going on to increase the attack of the kick and snare. It really depends, but I typically have quite a bit going on with drums tracked at my place.

You can really see that with the mixer presets. You can see all the routing with parallel compression, EQ, etc. It's a tremendous lesson for newbies.

I gotta get some value from DFHS v1 first!

I've had DFHS for a couple years. It's good. Superior Drummer 2.0 is GREAT! That's my opinion anyway. The've improved tremendously. If you've got the first one, you can upgrade for $120 or so. It's totally worth that in my opinion. I don't expect to be using the first one every again to be honest.

DFHS is awesome. The only problem I have with it is that I know what it sounds like and can tell when someone is using it.
Really? I guess I overmix so much that I can't tell what the hell I used on my own recordings half the time. But I was never really content with DFHS right out of the box. It was a good quality drum sound, but it wasn't my favorite drum sound (if that makes any sense).

Brandon

[Money Shot]

woah man. That's a good bit of info there. Seems like this program is the shiz. Can't wait to tinker with it for I know It's one of the key ingredients to making professional and believable recordings. I just hope it isn't too intimidating for me. I've never even used EZ drummmer.

[Money Shot]

DFHS is awesome. The only problem I have with it is that I know what it sounds like and can tell when someone is using it.


Really? I guess I overmix so much that I can't tell what the hell I used on my own recordings half the time. But I was never really content with DFHS right out of the box. It was a good quality drum sound, but it wasn't my favorite drum sound (if that makes any sense).

Well, I'm pretty familiar with the sounds of DFHS Superior, and I heard this band recently and could tell pretty quickly that they were using it. I knew because of the snare sound which was really punchy sort of and loud (great f-n snare sound by the way). I don't know tho maybe they had just eq'd it the way another band had which was how I knew it was DFHS...

I guess my point is that it's great that newer drum sample keep coming out with different kicks, snares etc.... Because it keeps things fresh. If someone could tell exactly what drum software you were using that could suck. For me anyways. It would seem to take away the magic in the person knowing it's only samples and not a human. So I'm totally about fooling ppl into thinking my drums or guitars are authentic when they're really not. Even tho I'm not in that position right now hahaha. I like to think about that stuff tho.

Some older recording I did in a studio with my Alesis actually fooled my friends. Mostly on the songs that didn't go over the top with fills and stuff. They'd be like, "Wow! That drummer is awesome." And I'd be like...."yea".
It kinda can sound like nintendo beats tho.

[brandondrury]

Also, since you're able to mix your drums before they're in cubase, what kind of mixing is needed once in the mix itself? I assume only some eq.

I forgot to answer this one. With the way Superior Drummer 2.0 is setup I really don't think I'd be doing anything in Cubase. I'm mixing a song with it starting tomorrow and I'll let you know.

I just hope it isn't too intimidating for me. I've never even used EZ drummmer.

I think it's way easier to use because of the mixer alone. It was very straight forward and I haven't used the manual yet.

If someone could tell exactly what drum software you were using that could suck.

Dude, you clearly haven't been doing this that long. What SUCKS is recording a real drum kit that sounds like shit, spending hundreds of hours trying to get it to sound like anything non-horrible, and then putting it in your car to discover the drums still sound like shit. In comparison, the fact that 13 audio engineers in the world can point out what software I used is the least of my worries.

It would seem to take away the magic in the person knowing it's only samples and not a human.

Audio engineers don't judge magic too often. They judge compression ratios and other bullshit. Musicians and audio engineers are the last people I think about when recording a song.

So I'm totally about fooling ppl into thinking my drums or guitars are authentic when they're really not.

This is more of a philosophy issue, but I think they are "authentic". When I play a mix and it sounds like killer real drums with an exciting, ass kicking quality to them, the emotion generated is authentic. If the emotion is authentic, the performance is authentic.

A buddy of mine were discussing the Metallica Black Album yesterday. As you may already know, Bob rock claims there are 20 something individual takes for Enter Sandman that have all been spliced together with razor blades. This was not an "authentic" performance on the drums, but a collection of performances. Anyway, we were discussing whether they used sample layering on top of those drums. Sample layering is considered to be a modern trend on drums, but how do we know they didn't use it?

It's easy to assume that all your favorite albums of all time are real and natural. It's easy to believe in the Easter bunny too.

Brandon

[Money Shot]

I forgot to answer this one. With the way Superior Drummer 2.0 is setup I really don't think I'd be doing anything in Cubase. I'm mixing a song with it starting tomorrow and I'll let you know.

If I'm not mistaken, you route each drum and cymbal to it's own channel in cubase right? So you'd have 8 or more tracks for drums. I think that's how it works. If it does, then I'd assume you'd need to eq them to make them fit into the mix better.

[Money Shot]

A buddy of mine were discussing the Metallica Black Album yesterday. As you may already know, Bob rock claims there are 20 something individual takes for Enter Sandman that have all been spliced together with razor blades. This was not an "authentic" performance on the drums, but a collection of performances. Anyway, we were discussing whether they used sample layering on top of those drums. Sample layering is considered to be a modern trend on drums, but how do we know they didn't use it?

Damn. Actually nah. I had no idea that all that went into making the black album. I know it was supposed to be flawless and worth over a million. 10 takes tho? Jesus.

[jdaug]

I just hope it isn't too intimidating for me. I've never even used EZ drummmer.

i dont have 2.0, but I do have DFHS 1.0. I tried messing with it for a couple of weeks and couldnt get a usable studio sound out of it. Yes, the samples were very real sounding, like I was in the room with the drummer, but thats usually not how you want your drums to sound on a rock or metal studio recording. so i gave up and got EZDFH instead of spending months trying to figure out how to mix true unprocessed samples. EZDFH was totally usable right out of the box with no eq, compression, etc, although those things are necessary for better quality recordings. Now that I have learned more about mixing drums, I think I will revisit DFHS soon and see if I can get to sound decent. i want a more realistic sound. realistic=sounds more like acoustic drums recorded and processed in a professional studio in the rock/metal genre.

[brandondrury]

[QUOTE]If I'm not mistaken, you route each drum and cymbal to it's own channel in cubase right? So you'd have 8 or more tracks for drums. I think that's how it works. If it does, then.[QUOTE]
In Superior Drummer 2.0 all tracks are, by default, routed through their own mixer and into a single stereo channel in Cubase. (This how most samplers work). You have the option to route individual tracks from the Superior Drummer mixer to up a whole bunch of Cubase channels (maybe 20, I'm guessing).

I'd assume you'd need to eq them to make them fit into the mix better

The Superior Drummer mixer does a WAY better job of handling all of this than I thought it would. I'm very impressed by it. That's the point of this thread. You can hear the individual presets that come not from changing the samples but from changing the mixer settings themselves.

So you really don't have to do anything in Cubase anymore.

Damn. Actually nah. I had no idea that all that went into making the black album. I know it was supposed to be flawless and worth over a million. 10 takes tho? Jesus.

Not 10 takes, 20 something GOOD takes were edited together with a razor blade. There is a reason that album took 9 months to record.

i dont have 2.0, but I do have DFHS 1.0. I tried messing with it for a couple of weeks and couldnt get a usable studio sound out of it. Yes, the samples were very real sounding, like I was in the room with the drummer, but thats usually not how you want your drums to sound on a rock or metal studio recording.

I just wrote this in my DFH Superior review recenty. I feel the same way. DFH Superior 1.0 had a midrangy tone to it that was better for country and music of that sort. I could never match what they had done on the mp3 clips on the Toontrack website no matter what. A lot of guys layered samples on top of it.

It was always a bunch of work trying to squeeze sounds out of DFH Superior. I feel confident in saying that they have 100% fixed everything I didn't like about DFH Superior in Superior Drummer 2.0. The upgrade for $120 is a no brainer in my opinion. You'll be glad you did it.

i want a more realistic sound.

I'd change the word "realistic" to "better" in this case. The DFH Superior has EXTREMELY realistic drums. You can see that on the video with the jazz drummer guy playing an edrum kit with them. They sound VERY realistic. They just sound midrangy and use a small room.

The Superior Drummer 2.0 stuff took a wildly different approach to tracking. The room is big. The drums are very bright when you want them to be (THAT is what you are looking for by the way).

Brandon