SomeAudioGuy Mic Shootout

[SomeAudioGuy]

The Ramblings of Some Audio Guy: SomeAudioGuy Microphone Shoot Out!

I was getting a lot of question from Voice talents about "good" mics, and how much to spend. In this article I compare an Aries, Solaris, KM184, and Senny 416. All VERY different (hand held, large budget diaphragm, small expensive diaphragm, pro shotgun), and each is twice as expensive as the last.

I don't know how scientific, but I had fun doing it!

Oh, and please pardon the streaming audio. I'm on DivShare right now, and their servers are dog slow.

[brandondrury]

How far away were you on the Aries? I'm assuming this is a mic tailors for live music based on the lack of low end.

Brandon

[SomeAudioGuy]

All recordings were done approx 8 inches from diaphragm.

The Aries is an odd duck. It's a handheld meant to compete with 57's, but it is a condenser and it is phantom powered.

To really use any of these mics, they probably should be punched into some kind of pre, but the point is to compare JUST the mics in the simplest signal chain I could do.

[brandondrury]

they probably should be punched into some kind of pre

So how were you recording them?

Brandon

[SomeAudioGuy]

Oh, mic plugged directly into my FW410.
At work we use dedicated channel strips or tube amps or compressors, or something like that. The pre's on the 410 are pretty neutral, so it was a good way to showcase just the mics, but for studio use you would ideally put them through something else first (at least a mixer).

Also for newbie VO actors, I tend to recommend a really easy home recording setup for auditioning, usually computer to a card like the mobilepre to the mic. I wanted to use that setup to show them how much benefit (or how little benefit) they'd receive from dumping a ton of money on a mic and not having the right equipment to back it up. No point in getting a Neumann if it's plugged into a FastTrack USB...

[brandondrury]

Oh, mic plugged directly into my FW410.

Oh. Well, the FW410 does have preamps. I guess you meant you should have used something high end. I don't necessarily agree if that's the case. I think the shootout has merit regardless. I thought you had came up with a REALLY strange way of testing your mics.

The pre's on the 410 are pretty neutral, so it was a good way to showcase just the mics, but for studio use you would ideally put them through something else first (at least a mixer).

What for? I haven't used a mixer on the front end in years.

No point in getting a Neumann if it's plugged into a FastTrack USB...

So are the converters THAT bad on the Fast Track USB. I agree with the concept, that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. However, I didn't realize the Fast Track USB was that weak of a link. I've heard some pretty decent recordings done on them.

Brandon

[SomeAudioGuy]

Well everything in your signal chain will influence your sound. The pres on the 410 and fasttrack aren't bad, they're actually pretty good, clean, very low noise, they're just kinda flat, especially on their own. Throw a little tube in front of them, and they sparkle. Unfortunately the more complicated the signal chain, the less likely a newbie VO artist will be able to deliver clean recordings.

I just don't see much benefit to plugging a $3000 mic into a $150 soundcard.

[brandondrury]

The pres on the 410 and fasttrack aren't bad, they're actually pretty good, clean, very low noise, they're just kinda flat, especially on their own. Throw a little tube in front of them, and they sparkle.

It's interesting that you bring up "tubes". When you think of the big name, desirable preamps out there: API, Neve, SSL, Trident, etc they are all solid state. I think tube preamps are used a whole lot less than people realize. You are more likely to find tube compressors in high end recording rigs.

I just don't see much benefit to plugging a $3000 mic into a $150 soundcard.

I don't agree with your approach. The biggest reason I don't agree with your approach is that I use my studio monitors to make audio decisions. In this case, you are using math to make your audio decisions. Even if one $150 audio interface sounds really bad (I'm not aware of any bad sounding cheap audio interfaces) I guarantee you that not all of them do.

Another problem in this logic, in my opinion, is you are glorifying the $3,000 mic maybe a little too much. I own a Soudelux U99. It's not $3,000, but close. (I think I paid about $2,500 for mine). On 10 different voices, I'd expect to find my Audio Techica AT4050, AKG 414, Shure SM7, or Sennheiser RE20 to be used just as much as the Soundelux U99 in a shootout. In other words, there is nothing objectively and comprehensively superior about the U99 in my opinion.

When I was at the Michael Wagener shootout, we had mics that were over $6,000. We had a mic that was a clone of a $20,000 mic. On the voice we were recording, that mic HURT! If a recording hurts, the audio engineer completely failed.

Choosing a vocal mic is about finding a mic that brings out good qualities of the voice and masks undesirable qualities in the voice. This is something the studio monitors will tell a skilled engineer and it has absolutely nothing to do with the price tag.

Again, there is nothing superior about a $3,000 Neumann when compared to a Shure SM7. They simply sound different. The Neumann can do things the SM7 can not and vice versa. If you are using an aggressive, hyped condenser on a voice that is naturally harsh, you'll find that the last thing you need to worry about is the $150 interface.

Brandon

[SomeAudioGuy]

Well yes and no.
I am using math, but I'm also using a pair of Tannoys, HD 25-1's, and a pretty decent set of Creative 5.1's. I find it hard to believe you aren't using some math, as the entire last half of your response is about budget, midrange, AND high end microphones. Sounds suspiciously like an ROI or "bang for buck" argument to me...

I would find it highly irresponsible in my line of work to recommend an expensive mic to a beginner VO artist. Say I did recommend a U87, it could take up to 8 radio bookings (in LA, 16 bookings or more elsewhere) to make back that investment, bookings secured solely off the mic itself.
If an artist were to do a mic shootout, and the U87 was the ONLY mic to compliment that voice, then I'd say bite the bullet, buckle down, and work it out. That scenario has never happened to me, as many mics out there will compliment many voices.

Also I'd say it has little to do with MY glorifying the U87, as people who actually use them know they have strengths and weaknesses. Those that don't record, hear from others that don't record, see the expensive price tag, and assume they will do something magical to their auditions. This simply isn't the case. I'll second your experiences, though I've never used a $20K mic, but "artists" tend to be wowed by things like "ribbon", "vintage", "tube", pretty much everything but the actual quality of sound. Come on, haven't you ever worked with someone like this?
Isn't this exactly what you were talking about with your U99? Being wowed by a reputation? Spending $2500 on a mic you use as much as any other (though I do love the 414, easily my favorite multi).
I think it's amusing that my "money" approach and your "ears" approach come to a similar conclusion in the end (though my blog post is about comparing sound samples of different types of mics, like with your ears...).

Again, as I've said above, the pre's on these sound cards aren't bad at all (though tell the truth, how often do you REALLY record from mic to soundcard, come on fess up ), but there are lots of reasons to not recommend a $150 sound card, if you can afford it, aside from the pre's themselves. The biggest imo are flexibility and durability. When a VO artists is looking at home recording (or building up kit to record while traveling) their average budget is usually under $1000, and often under $600. Moving from a $150 card to a $300 card usually moves you from plastic to aluminum, better quality neutriks (I've had one person rip out the xlr's on a mobilepre), 16-bit to 24-bit (not a huge deal at all for most but still), more flexibility with ins and outs (great if you start building your gear collection), and other niceties (like my 410's dual headphone jacks, very handy). Though none of this really had anything to do with the actual post, other than to mention that in most studio situations, these mics aren't going to be used in this manner, and were only used this way to showcase the mics themselves (so your ears could hear the differences, and hopefully influence your wallet).

Also, in terms of signal chain, I've had my fair share of Avalon's, DBX's, LA610's, even the odd Aphex or Berhinger, not to mention tube mics, that's a lot of vacuum tube-age. If it's the sound that you want, why wouldn't a studio invest in a tube somewhere?

We all get into recording for different reasons, some for personal growth, some for art, some for business. For most VO artists, it's a very practical reason that has VERY much to do with budgets. They don't want to drive around LA to a studio or to casting or their talent agency, and want to do their auditions from home.

Commercial VO in LA is in a funny place right now. Auditions are usually delivered in 128Kbps MP3, and often listened to on consumer speakers (sometimes even the crappy ones built into computer monitors). Just like how on-camera auditions don't use the cameras used for feature films, VO casting cares less about pristine audio fidelity, and more about voice type, performance, attitude, basically you just want a clean sample to show off what you can do. I've had people book national TV commercials out of their kitchens and hotel rooms.

That's all I'm trying to get at with my mic shootout, and I think we ultimately arrive at the same conclusion (Though I personally will admit to some frustration when I've had vo clients admit they couldn't hear any difference between a normalized Solaris and a 416 - hey still a gear snob). Bang for buck is really important, but isn't that why we're here, on forums, recommending stuff...

[brandondrury]

I am using math, but I'm also using a pair of Tannoys, HD 25-1's, and a pretty decent set of Creative 5.1's. I find it hard to believe you aren't using some math, as the entire last half of your response is about budget, midrange, AND high end microphones. Sounds suspiciously like an ROI or "bang for buck" argument to me...

Nope, re-read it. There is nothing to suggest anything in regard to bang for the buck. In fact, the entire point of that post was that price tag is meaningless in a recording situation. Comparing a SM7 vs a Neumann U87 (for example) in a session has nothing to do with budget.

I would find it highly irresponsible in my line of work to recommend an expensive mic to a beginner VO artist.

I agree. That's kind of the entire theme of this site. I have numerous articles on the subject of "Mics Being Crayons" and similar concepts.

Say I did recommend a U87, it could take up to 8 radio bookings (in LA, 16 bookings or more elsewhere) to make back that investment, bookings secured solely off the mic itself.

So are we talking about an audio shootout, a business plan, or both? Again, I'm all about running a business and that sometimes means I have to be very critical about so-called "upgrades". However, a voiceover dude will have one mic that works best with his vocal. That may be a U87, but it may be a Shure SM7. The effects of the cheap audio interface go downthe line, but there is nothing in the cheap audio interface that would nullify the effects of the U87 being the ideal mic for the job any more than they would effect the SM7 being the ideal mic for the job.

Come on, haven't you ever worked with someone like this?

If I was working with someone like THAT, I GUARANTEE you that I'd be convincing her that something else was the microphone.

Again, as I've said above, the pre's on these sound cards aren't bad at all (though tell the truth, how often do you REALLY record from mic to soundcard, come on fess up ),

My Delta 1010s don't have built in pres. I have to use external pres.

Isn't this exactly what you were talking about with your U99? Being wowed by a reputation? Spending $2500 on a mic you use as much as any other (though I do love the 414, easily my favorite multi).

There are definitely times where I wish that green crayons didn't cost as much as red crayons. I wish the U99 didn't hog up so much of an investment. It's not an issue of being duped. The U99 has X sound. When it is right, it is right.

Going back to the high end mic vs cheap front end I remember reading an article in EQ years ago about Don Lafontaine. At the time he was using a Neumann U47 into a Mackie 1202 mixer, into some cheap audio interface.

Brandon