Snare Drum Micing and Compression.

[brandondrury]

in cubase each channel has ist own phase shifter.

I guess you referring to the polarity / phase button. Technically that is not a "phase shifter". There are devices that actually do allow you to shift the phase (see the Little Labs IBP) This button in Cubase essentially just flips the positive and negative leads in the circuit (in software mode).

[Ultra]

yeah i mean that. But you are changing the phase of the signal in 180º. it is indeed a phase shifter, and discrete, static, but phase shifter after all. If you want to switch the phase of the signal in a value between 0º and 180º you can use the delay control in the inspector panel of cubase SX (audio channel).

Bye!

Excuse my english, im from argentina.

[MetalDave]

If you are miking the toms on the top you need to reverse polarity on all of those and the top mic on your snare. When you kick the kick, you want the speaker to have a positive response. If you reverse polarity on the bottom of the snare or leave all the toms miked on the top without reversing them, you are out of phase with the kick. This in my opinion is wrong. The best place for a drum mic in 80% of all situations is inside the drum. Think long and hard about this.

[brandondrury]

If you are miking the toms on the top you need to reverse polarity on all of those and the top mic on your snare.

This is totally dependent on the way the drums are spread out (and therefore the mics). For me it's different every time, but I certainly try flipping the polarity on all of them just to see what happens.

Brandon

[Ultra]

If you want to avoid having phase problems on your mixes i recomend to use a phase scope or a correlation meter. A very good one is the piguin meter, but theres several (free and non-free) over the net, checkout inspector, from roger nichols.

Ultra

[Ultra]

My bad. I think that inspector wont help you on this one. The balance meter is not suitable for this.

Ultra

[MetalDave]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

This is totally dependent on the way the drums are spread out (and therefore the mics). For me it's different every time, but I certainly try flipping the polarity on all of them just to see what happens.

Brandon

Most drummers...well actually all drummers I know don't spread out their drums anymore than they have to. The closer the drums are to each other the better it is to access each drum from the others. When close Miking a drum you do want the sound to travel toward the mic. Otherwise the mike (in my opinion) should switch polarity. This is to insure the speaker has a positive response. Again, the best drum sounds I have aquired had the mics inside the Toms and reverse polarity on the snare. I never had a polarity switch on my 57 so we had a special cable for that. Later we switched the polarity on the snake to the snare channel and to the back cab mic for the lead guitar. I usually had a bottom snare mic that I ran normal. I still would like to try putting a mic inside the snare. I have been thinking of a way to do this with a directional that can be turned from the outside to get the right sound. I have been thinking of again going to triggers on the drums and overheads for cymbals only. This saves on time. The only problem is everyone sounds the same then. Drums first then Vocals with guitars at a close third are the hardest things to capture IMO. And yes it is different every time with everything you put a mic to.
One thing I have learned in the studio is stay away from those drum mounted mic clips. They pick up everything! If you use a rail don't mount the drum mics on that either. Individual mic stands are a must for me. The only drum I don't mind a clip on is the snare and floor tom because it isn't mounted to anything else. Also another technique I have seen used is putting a blanket over the back of the whole set to keep the toms and kick out of the overheads. I have never used it but I may in the future. If you have a real nice set it may also be a good idea to get a cheaper beat up set for recording as I like to duct tape things. Tape sucks on a nice set.
As far as compression on the snare... Compression makes things sound more even but it may take away from dynamics also. Compresser limitters are the most overused effect I think as of late. Gates are another processor that should be used as little as possible. I never gate cymbals! Some people do however. The only time I use a gate is 1. when recording I can't keep tom 1 lets say out of tom 2 or vice versa. Or 2. live I want that really deep floor tom or kick drum but the room wants to make it feed. I will gate it to keep the deep sound yet cut it short to keep the feedback to a minimum.
Last but not least... The snare has to be the most annoying instrument there is. You can't really set the sound of a snare without hearing it with the rest of the kit. Also you may want to take ear breaks more often when working on snare sounds.

[brandondrury]

well actually all drummers I know don't spread out their drums anymore than they have to. The closer the drums are to each other the better it is to access each drum from the others.

Yeah, but the drummer who is 6' 4" has to spread his kit out much wider than the drummer who is 5' 3". Regardless, I've recorded enough drummers to know that the exact phasing relationships between the close mics is not fixed. This phase / comb filtering business can get crazy with a simple 1" move of a mic. This doesn't mean it always does, but it can.

When close Miking a drum you do want the sound to travel toward the mic.

I've seen a few guys mic the room by pointing the mic towards the reflections and not the actual kit, but I think it goes without saying that you want to point the mic at the source you intend to capture.

I never had a polarity switch on my 57 so we had a special cable for that.

Every recording software I've ever seen has a "phase" or polarity button that does the same thing.

[MetalDave]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Yeah, but the drummer who is 6' 4" has to spread his kit out much wider than the drummer who is 5' 3".

I am 6'3" I just put the throne back further than the 5'3" guy.

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Regardless, I've recorded enough drummers to know that the exact phasing relationships between the close mics is not fixed. This phase / comb filtering business can get crazy with a simple 1" move of a mic. This doesn't mean it always does, but it can.

Is switching polarity the same as phase shifting?

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I've seen a few guys mic the room by pointing the mic towards the reflections and not the actual kit, but I think it goes without saying that you want to point the mic at the source you intend to capture.

I believe I said "When close Miking a drum you do want the sound to travel toward the mic. Otherwise the mike (in my opinion) should switch polarity. This is to insure the speaker has a positive response." When you are Miking a room the sound will naturally have a positive response no matter where you place the mic. As far as Phase problems.. this usually has to be maintained by moving mics and or changing EQ. The only thing is I have never yet had phase problems when miking the toms from inside the drum. (Maybe I have been lucky?)

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Every recording software I've ever seen has a "phase" or polarity button that does the same thing.

How would this be used when the same band goes to play live? Does this also make it sound right in the monitors?

[MetalDave]

I want to add by positive response, I mean the speaker should go out when there is sound coming from it. If you put a mic in a position where the sound is traveling away from it, it can give the speaker a negative response (the speaker goes in when the sound is made). This is usually caused by negative pressure at the mic.