problems and annoyances with sonar ??

[newkid]

Looking to move up to better DAW.
Resisting pro tools because of new hardware required.
Short list has Cubase and Sonar.
Cubase has those damn dongles.

Before I cross that one off the list ---
What problems or annoyances does sonar have?
Does sonar use dongles?
Does it phone home requiring internet access?
Keep asking you to put in 64-256 hexadecimal characters every few minutes to prove you are still you?
Does it do anything that interrupts recording causing noise?
Is it easy to use or is it a PITA for doing some things?

Be honest, please.
No product is perfect, in spite of the magazine reviews.
What are the issues with sonar that you have seen?

What other products did you seriously consider before getting sonar?

What did you use before moving to sonar? Why did you move?

Thanks for your views.

[BudmanRocks]

I have been using Sonar for around 4 years and I have very little problems. I'm running a few vsti's in it and works great. My audio is Tascam US1641 intagrated well together. Yes the internet or phone is required.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by BudmanRocks

I have been using Sonar for around 4 years and I have very little problems. I'm running a few vsti's in it and works great. My audio is Tascam US1641 intagrated well together. Yes the internet or phone is required.

Thanks

We have cell phone access and can call for authorisation.
No way to hook the pc to the net or even dial up.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by newkid

Before I cross that one off the list ---
What problems or annoyances does sonar have?
Does sonar use dongles?
Does it phone home requiring internet access?
Keep asking you to put in 64-256 hexadecimal characters every few minutes to prove you are still you?

I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar for 15 years. Overall I'm happy with it.

Problems/annoyances: It's workflow and GUI aren't as nice as PT.

However, I found it easier (some folks say the GUI is too Mickey Mouse) or more intuitive to learn and work with than PT and Cubase.

I only track in Sonar (because I have the I/O for it); and do 90% of my mixes in Sonar. Sometimes I'll mix in PT.

I tried Cubase, but found I couldn't get the hang of its workflow and GUI. I tried it because a band I worked with used it; they would hook up their laptop to my system.

Dongles? No Sonar doesn't use them.

Internet access: No Internet access is not required for Sonar. They do have a great online account capability. Log in and access all your Sonar registrations (mine go back to about 2000 when Sonar started this; shows all my past versions of Sonar).

Originally Posted by newkid

Is it easy to use or is it a PITA for doing some things?

Be honest, please.
No product is perfect, in spite of the magazine reviews.
What are the issues with sonar that you have seen?

The track editing isn't as intuitive or easy (once again, I call it workflow) as PT.

Sonar's been known for some bugs with new versions of Windows OS'es, so you'll always be waiting on the patches.

Sometimes Sonar will exit itself (happened last night). Believe it's a Sonar and Vista issue, but unique to my configuration settings (i.e., haven't figured out why it happens, but happens once every month or two). Just keep the autosave feature on.

Originally Posted by newkid

What other products did you seriously consider before getting sonar?

What did you use before moving to sonar? Why did you move?

Thanks for your views.

PT LE 7.4 (which I have installed). Nothing wrong with PT, but I'm so used to Sonar that there is no need to change. Sonar does everything I need it to do.

Cakewalk 3.0 was the first DAW for me. Never used anything before it.

Have you considered Nuendo, or does it have the same quirks as Cubase?

Good questions by the way. As you know, it's about the feel, features, capabilities, etc; not necessarily which is sonically better, because you can argue there is no sonic difference between the DAWS... just the PITA factor!

[newkid]

Originally Posted by TonyB

I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar for 15 years. Overall I'm happy with it.

Problems/annoyances: It's workflow and GUI aren't as nice as PT.

However, I found it easier (some folks say the GUI is too Mickey Mouse) or more intuitive to learn and work with than PT and Cubase.

I only track in Sonar (because I have the I/O for it); and do 90% of my mixes in Sonar. Sometimes I'll mix in PT.

I tried Cubase, but found I couldn't get the hang of its workflow and GUI. I tried it because a band I worked with used it; they would hook up their laptop to my system.

Dongles? No Sonar doesn't use them.

Internet access: No Internet access is not required for Sonar. They do have a great online account capability. Log in and access all your Sonar registrations (mine go back to about 2000 when Sonar started this; shows all my past versions of Sonar).



The track editing isn't as intuitive or easy (once again, I call it workflow) as PT.

Sonar's been known for some bugs with new versions of Windows OS'es, so you'll always be waiting on the patches.

Sometimes Sonar will exit itself (happened last night). Believe it's a Sonar and Vista issue, but unique to my configuration settings (i.e., haven't figured out why it happens, but happens once every month or two). Just keep the autosave feature on.



PT LE 7.4 (which I have installed). Nothing wrong with PT, but I'm so used to Sonar that there is no need to change. Sonar does everything I need it to do.

Cakewalk 3.0 was the first DAW for me. Never used anything before it.

Have you considered Nuendo, or does it have the same quirks as Cubase?

Good questions by the way. As you know, it's about the feel, features, capabilities, etc; not necessarily which is sonically better, because you can argue there is no sonic difference between the DAWS... just the PITA factor!

Thanks.
That was helpful.

I understand that all steinberg software has the dongle problem.

Sounds liek a megaPITA. Buy some dongle separately. (Will it be one that works with them??) Then somehow convince it and the software that they should play nice together. Perhaps third parties involved to load license info on the dongle. Just not worth the hassles to even contemplate trying taht.


PT would require me to buy new hardware. I might consider that eventually if the full PT would run on any of their boxes. And that that interface was a high end quality device. don't want to buy some lite version and cheap box then have to buy another box if I move up to the full PT.

Might have to get soem PT version if I take the studio class at the local CC. Hopefully the bookstore would have some academic discount pricing to help.

I will learn whatever workflow the DAW has. It would have to be truly atrocious for me to tolerate a dongle or the pc phoning home over the internet.

Cubase, Sonar, and PT had been on my short list.
Cubase is gone if Sonar or PT have no dongle or internet hassles.

Not sure whether Audition (no dongles!) or anything else shoudl be considered. So many options doing similar things, but enough differences to make choosing one hard.

I would like to use the DAW with finale or sibelius and also bandinabox. Not sure what conflicts that could cause. Or what might play nicer together.

[Danny Danzi]

Agree with Tony B in just about all that he's said. For the most part, Sonar is a very pro piece of software. Most of the issues come in 4 forms....user error, audio misconfigurations, wrong drivers and consumer soundcards.

There is not one pc that I wasn't able to make Sonar run nearly perfect on. There are tweaks that are important within your os as well as Sonar itself. Tweaks if you use WDM, tweaks if you use ASIO, tweaks for MME....you have to select the right driver for your system and you need to sometimes have your system configured correctly for it to work.

For example, if you use the internet and a billion chat programs and loads of other things and when you press ctrl/alt/del you see more than 40 things running, your Sonar experience could be a rough one. However, if you use it as I do on a dedicated recording pc you can totally tweak your OS for audio and it will be a perfect experience. When I boot up using XP, there are 24 things running on my system using less than 178mb of RAM. That's pretty killer and makes Sonar a breeze for me. I use it over 50+ hours per week recording projects at 24/48 from 20 tracks to over 100 tracks with numerous plugins.

I recommend at least Sonar 8.3.1 or the new 8.5.1 as they are 2 of the most stable and reliable versions I have ever used. Like Tony, I too have been with Sonar since Cakewalk 3 and was a beta tester for 12 tones for quite a number of years...so I know it well. I have just about every DAW program you can think of over here and have used them all extensively. Pro Tools for pc (stay away from it as in my opinion, it's pretty bad.) Pro Tools HD for my mac (this is the way to go if you want PT) Paris Audio, Sequoia, Logic, Adobe Audition 3, Nuendo, Cubase 3 through 5, Reaper, Abletone Live and Audacity to name a few I have here.

Sonar in my humble opinion is the best of the bunch. Not because I'm biased or connected with it, but because for me and how I work, it is the DAW that gives me everything I need and I work in it much faster. It has enough plugins and VSTi's to create a song from scratch without playing an instrument physically. The onboard sounds, samplers and plugins are fantastic, it rocks for midi, it allows for sidechaining as well as external effects usage and has an improved Audio Snap that will allow you to literally quantize your audio just like midi.

The stock V-Vocal that comes with it blows Antares in the dust, and it's a snap to arm a track and start recording in under 10 seconds. There is a bit of a learning curve as there is with most professional recording programs, but to me, it's a very easy learning curve IF you try to incorporate what you know about recording already, and stay away from the additional bells and whistles that may intimidate you upon opening it.

That's another thing...it's fully customizeable so if you don't want to see something, you kill it. Set it up completely for what you use and how you work. The hardest part about using Sonar is the initial set-up for someone that doesn't have a clue about how DAWs work. I'd be more than happy to talk you through setting it up if you have any issues. Once it's set up, it will work like a dog.

For Vista, your best bet is to use a good soundcard that has the right drivers for it. If not and you're currently stuck with a consumer card, ASIO4all will be your savior and those drivers work perfectly on all my Vista boxes that don't have pro soundcards.

I can't say one negative thing about Sonar or the Cakewalk staff. They bring you patches for bug fixes in a timely fashion and care about their customers. Most times, bugs that are found in the program will not effect everyone. For example, as much as I feel I know the program, I may use 60% of it. The other 40% that I don't use may be where the bugs may be...so for a guy of my usage, I won't even see them. It all depends how you use the program. So if you read about bugs or annoyances, keep in mind some of the guys that report these things are power users that may be using stuff that you may never use, or people just having a go making stuff up.

If you need to record, create midi, mix, use plugins and softsynths, I have found no bugs with the stuff that comes with Sonar. You may have a few issues here and there with 3rd party applications and plugins from time to time, but even those seem to get fixed in a timely fashion.

That said, I sincerely believe all the audio applications available right now are fantastic. I could create the same project in each one of them and post my results and you'd not be able to tell which was recorded where. However, as we work in this field, you get your own work ethics and necessities that you need available on the fly and they have to be useable to you to where you understand them.

This is where Sonar has been a blessing to me. All the stuff I need to use works perfectly and is right there for me at the touch of a button. For some of the others programs, yes they too can do what Sonar can do, but I sometimes have to use work-arounds to make things work...or there is longer time needed to do something, or a long way around etc. Time is money...the right DAW is like a soul mate in a sense. You sometimes have to kiss a few toads before you find the princess....I happened to get lucky on my first toad. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

...... 12 tones .....

Excellent rundown, DD! 12Tones? Wow, I forgot about that. I was trying to remember what the predecessor was.

Once I upgraded from a duo CPU to a quad and 2GB to 4GB (although Vista 32 only addresses 3.something GB), things radically improved. My bottle neck is my old UAD card! UGH!

But with my MOTU 12 I/O and 16 Channel MIDAS connected to my DAW (with various other outboard gear), I'm in heaven.

[Danny Danzi]

Originally Posted by TonyB

Excellent rundown, DD! 12Tones? Wow, I forgot about that. I was trying to remember what the predecessor was.

Once I upgraded from a duo CPU to a quad and 2GB to 4GB (although Vista 32 only addresses 3.something GB), things radically improved. My bottle neck is my old UAD card! UGH!

But with my MOTU 12 I/O and 16 Channel MIDAS connected to my DAW (with various other outboard gear), I'm in heaven.

T, I'm running 2 of those old UAD-1 cards here at once man...no issues at all. What types of problems are you exepriencing? Anything I can help with? Sounds like you know your stuff though, so I'd probably not be of much help. But if so, let me know man, ok?

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

T, I'm running 2 of those old UAD-1 cards here at once man...no issues at all. What types of problems are you exepriencing? Anything I can help with? Sounds like you know your stuff though, so I'd probably not be of much help. But if so, let me know man, ok?

No technical issues, just the fact that I max the card out. I can only use so many plugs before the UAD card tells me "I'm full".

My current PC only has one PCIe slot, so I can't add another. I'll probably spring for a UAD2 someday. I love the UAD plugs!

[newkid]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

Agree with Tony B in just about all that he's said. For the most part, Sonar is a very pro piece of software. Most of the issues come in 4 forms....user error, audio misconfigurations, wrong drivers and consumer soundcards.

There is not one pc that I wasn't able to make Sonar run nearly perfect on. There are tweaks that are important within your os as well as Sonar itself. Tweaks if you use WDM, tweaks if you use ASIO, tweaks for MME....you have to select the right driver for your system and you need to sometimes have your system configured correctly for it to work.

For example, if you use the internet and a billion chat programs and loads of other things and when you press ctrl/alt/del you see more than 40 things running, your Sonar experience could be a rough one. However, if you use it as I do on a dedicated recording pc you can totally tweak your OS for audio and it will be a perfect experience. When I boot up using XP, there are 24 things running on my system using less than 178mb of RAM. That's pretty killer and makes Sonar a breeze for me. I use it over 50+ hours per week recording projects at 24/48 from 20 tracks to over 100 tracks with numerous plugins.

I recommend at least Sonar 8.3.1 or the new 8.5.1 as they are 2 of the most stable and reliable versions I have ever used. Like Tony, I too have been with Sonar since Cakewalk 3 and was a beta tester for 12 tones for quite a number of years...so I know it well. I have just about every DAW program you can think of over here and have used them all extensively. Pro Tools for pc (stay away from it as in my opinion, it's pretty bad.) Pro Tools HD for my mac (this is the way to go if you want PT) Paris Audio, Sequoia, Logic, Adobe Audition 3, Nuendo, Cubase 3 through 5, Reaper, Abletone Live and Audacity to name a few I have here.

Sonar in my humble opinion is the best of the bunch. Not because I'm biased or connected with it, but because for me and how I work, it is the DAW that gives me everything I need and I work in it much faster. It has enough plugins and VSTi's to create a song from scratch without playing an instrument physically. The onboard sounds, samplers and plugins are fantastic, it rocks for midi, it allows for sidechaining as well as external effects usage and has an improved Audio Snap that will allow you to literally quantize your audio just like midi.

The stock V-Vocal that comes with it blows Antares in the dust, and it's a snap to arm a track and start recording in under 10 seconds. There is a bit of a learning curve as there is with most professional recording programs, but to me, it's a very easy learning curve IF you try to incorporate what you know about recording already, and stay away from the additional bells and whistles that may intimidate you upon opening it.

That's another thing...it's fully customizeable so if you don't want to see something, you kill it. Set it up completely for what you use and how you work. The hardest part about using Sonar is the initial set-up for someone that doesn't have a clue about how DAWs work. I'd be more than happy to talk you through setting it up if you have any issues. Once it's set up, it will work like a dog.

For Vista, your best bet is to use a good soundcard that has the right drivers for it. If not and you're currently stuck with a consumer card, ASIO4all will be your savior and those drivers work perfectly on all my Vista boxes that don't have pro soundcards.

I can't say one negative thing about Sonar or the Cakewalk staff. They bring you patches for bug fixes in a timely fashion and care about their customers. Most times, bugs that are found in the program will not effect everyone. For example, as much as I feel I know the program, I may use 60% of it. The other 40% that I don't use may be where the bugs may be...so for a guy of my usage, I won't even see them. It all depends how you use the program. So if you read about bugs or annoyances, keep in mind some of the guys that report these things are power users that may be using stuff that you may never use, or people just having a go making stuff up.

If you need to record, create midi, mix, use plugins and softsynths, I have found no bugs with the stuff that comes with Sonar. You may have a few issues here and there with 3rd party applications and plugins from time to time, but even those seem to get fixed in a timely fashion.

That said, I sincerely believe all the audio applications available right now are fantastic. I could create the same project in each one of them and post my results and you'd not be able to tell which was recorded where. However, as we work in this field, you get your own work ethics and necessities that you need available on the fly and they have to be useable to you to where you understand them.

This is where Sonar has been a blessing to me. All the stuff I need to use works perfectly and is right there for me at the touch of a button. For some of the others programs, yes they too can do what Sonar can do, but I sometimes have to use work-arounds to make things work...or there is longer time needed to do something, or a long way around etc. Time is money...the right DAW is like a soul mate in a sense. You sometimes have to kiss a few toads before you find the princess....I happened to get lucky on my first toad. Good luck with whatever you decide.

+1 great info.


The pc will be stripped clean of all unneeded processes especially indexing and security scans. Never on the net not going to need antivirus software. Don't want all of uncle billyBOBs "help".

XPPro forever - and then on to LINUX. Never going to use son of Bob aka vista nor Bob's cousin aka "7". I need a fast reliable pc not one loaded up with useless crap that causes problems.

I still have two win98SE systems running fine. A third one died and we had to get new hardware with xp on it. Got a 4th big one with xppro before they get ready to stop letting those ship.