More headroom?

[muzikmann53]

Hi guys! Newbie here...


Using Sonar 8 Producer along with Presonus Firestudio Project (x 2), and having a few issues I can't seem to get figured out.



#1. Snare (Audix i5) never seems to have enough headroom in the mix. I end up having to clip it to where it's even audible. The input gain is set to 0, and the mic placement is good.

#2. Toms (e604's) I'm having that same problem with, PLUS we're having to EQ the crap out of 'em to give them some punch and transparency in the mix. Right now it's just massive mud. I've read up on mic placement, and there was even a suggestion about phase issues. Anyone know anything about it? Do tell...

#3. Lastly, volume issues seem to abound. I mix and apply plug-ins on the master all at the same time (Boost11, MBEQ, MBComp, UltraMax), but they don't seem to help, mainly due I suppose to the clipping snare and toms. I can't even get the master vol up more than -12 before clipping. Hell if I know...


Help!

[paul999]

I'm not sure I understand totally. Check every piece of gear and make sure it is not clipping when recording or in playback. It does sort of sound like you are clipping the output on your interface as you play back. Can you post a sample of this muddy project?

[muzikmann53]

Just "finished" this one a few days ago.



It's a Tama Superstar Custom SL kit with i5 snare, e604 toms, D6 kick, and Rode NT5 OH L&R.

[P.P.T.]

If things are clipping turn them down.

If there is clipping when you are recording, turn down the levels until there is no clipping even on the loudest parts.

Make the headroom.

[P.P.T.]

You're not trying to run each track at 0 db are you?

[muzikmann53]

Originally Posted by P.P.T.

You're not trying to run each track at 0 db are you?

Absolutely not.



Whenever I record the drums, I first beat them like they owe me money just to check the gains. I'm trying to make them clip. The meters show the sound peaking at no more than -3. But when playback occurs, they're clipping and barely even in the mix.

[P.P.T.]

If the playback level on that drum track that is at -3db is set to 0 then it should play back at the same volume as recorded, not clipping.
There must be something doing that like something on the master buss or some setting in your sequencer.

If a track is clipping (going over 0 db) and yet is too llow in the mix to hear, then everything else needs to be turned down until you can hear that drum.

The main issue is why that drum is playing back that loud and clipping even though you recorded it without clipping.

Which meters are you looking at when you bang the drum to make sure it isn't clipping?
The meter on the track you are recording to, or a meter on the soundcard, or on a mixer that is then going into the soundcard?

If I ask a stupid question it is just because I am trying to find my way through thew process.

[whomper]

Originally Posted by P.P.T.

If the playback level on that drum track that is at -3db is set to 0 then it should play back at the same volume as recorded, not clipping.
There must be something doing that like something on the master buss or some setting in your sequencer.

If a track is clipping (going over 0 db) and yet is too llow in the mix to hear, then everything else needs to be turned down until you can hear that drum.

The main issue is why that drum is playing back that loud and clipping even though you recorded it without clipping.

Which meters are you looking at when you bang the drum to make sure it isn't clipping?
The meter on the track you are recording to, or a meter on the soundcard, or on a mixer that is then going into the soundcard?

If I ask a stupid question it is just because I am trying to find my way through thew process.

folks here lead me to believe
that
if you just used midi
instead of really recording real sounds
you wouldnt have any of those problems

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by P.P.T.

If the playback level on that drum track that is at -3db is set to 0 then it should play back at the same volume as recorded, not clipping.
There must be something doing that like something on the master buss or some setting in your sequencer.

If a track is clipping (going over 0 db) and yet is too llow in the mix to hear, then everything else needs to be turned down until you can hear that drum.

The main issue is why that drum is playing back that loud and clipping even though you recorded it without clipping.

Which meters are you looking at when you bang the drum to make sure it isn't clipping?
The meter on the track you are recording to, or a meter on the soundcard, or on a mixer that is then going into the soundcard?

If I ask a stupid question it is just because I am trying to find my way through thew process.

You should be tracking at around -18dBFS on average with a peak or so around -9dBFS to give yourself enough headroom to mix everything. Remember all your tracks' dB adds up on the Master fader.

Since you're not recording in analog you don't have to work about S/N ratio (noise/hiss) [okay, I'm not considering noise from other components in the chain, but that's a different story].

In the digital realm, you can go down to an average of -24dBFS if you like.


Once you're done tracking, bring all track or group faders (group faders if you're bussing everything to 0. Each bus track should be hovering around -18dBFS.

Now start bringing tracks down (not up). For example...your snare getting buried in the mix? Bring down everything else. Now this is a simplistic example, but bring things down in order for something else to come out in the mix.

You read the meter on the track!

[P.P.T.]

And then, once you have a good sounding mix you can bring the entire mix level up to final volume.