Discussion of Mix This #4 Rules

[brandondrury]

I could have sent this as a private message to Audio~Geek, but I figured we could all discuss it.

When you post a mix, you must critique the previous poster's mix.

I think this is an OUTSTANDING addition to the Mix This series and I'd like to see it each and every time! Great Great Great idea!

No sample replacement, try to get great sounds from what you have.

I don't understand this one. I look at sample replacement / layering as an alternative to EQ / compression and little more. I feel that saying "no sample replacement" is similar to saying "no EQ". I don't see a difference.

I know some people make the argument that samples aren't real or authentic or whatever. However, for every drummer who has told me not to use samples, he has loved the way "his" drums sounded after I used them. Sometimes I actually tell the drummer I used samples. Sometimes I don't. I don't think samples are about changing the source with something fake. Samples allow you to get high end crack in the snare in a way that is impossible without samples because you can process without worrying about bleed. This is especially true of drums that weren't tuned well to begin with or were recorded in a room that had caused lots of bleed in the snare.

One could argue that sample replacement takes the audio engineering skill out of it. I could disagree more. Simply firing up samples doesn't get you Nickelback drums or whatever. Not even close. It still takes lots of work and skill getting the drums to work within the confines of modern loudness.

So if we are going to limit sample replacement this go around, why not limit compression or reverb on the next one? To add an EQ to a track is just as fake as adding a sample in my opinion.

For me, I mix to serve the music. I don't know how to mix any other way. The music is the boss. So when a rule like "no sample replacement" is used it seems to be more like we are adding an unncessary challenge to the process for the sake of engineering skill at the cost of the music (assuming that sample replacement would serve the music....I think it DEFINITELY would in this case).

Brandon

[ryanoliver]

For arguments sake, is adding samples the same as amping up and adding layers to the guitar or a harmony to the vocal. At what point as engineers do we become producers as well? For the record I'm all for samples, I'm actually hoping there are some "WOW" factors going on rather than just the same song over and over with some subtle volume differences.

[brandondrury]

, is adding samples the same as amping up and adding layers to the guitar or a harmony to the vocal.

I think the use of sample layering on drumsis night and day from adding guitar layers. The purpose of the sample layering is to get more crack out of a drum and to compliment the sound of the drums that is already there. I think most people simply assume that EQ is the way to do this. In many instances (great natural drum recordings) it is, but sometimes EQ just ain't enough to "get there".

It seems to me that sample replacement is simply a tool that has been around long enough to be recognized to the extent as EQ and compression are.

If I had been recommending replacing real drums to sound more like a 808 drum machine or something, I think that would fall on the creative side that would have to get approval from the band.

For the record I'm all for samples, I'm actually hoping there are some "WOW" factors going on in the mixes to come rather than just the same song over and over with some subtle volume differences.

Yeah, we'll just have to see.

Brandon