How about a nice W A R M cup of PRESETS?

[Troy Filipek]

Hi all

I use presets a lot as a starting point because I am at best a beginner. I think presets won't make you lazy if you use them for the right reasons.
Here's my theory as a beginner trying to get off the ground as an engineer:
There are a shit load of articles and books ( I have a few) which go into gory detail about EQing, applying fx and so on. And most articles without exception says somewhere, "it is a matter of taste and every situation is different (in other words ...so giving specifics would be futile)" (or along those lines).

Now I know that can be true however, it would be nice to at least have some reference point to start from and this is where I believe presets come in to play. I mean everyone agrees that if you want to increase the brightness in a mix you don't increase volume in the lower frequencies. This is a fact.
Little facts like these have nothing to do with "taste" and "situations", so why can't articles just say, "do such and such at such and such a frequency and this will happen to a vocal". This would be so valuable for a beginner. Why? Because it would be a starting point. A landing on the correct planet at the very least. Then the beginner could tweak the eqing/fx (or whatever) to suit AFTER being put in the right direction.

This is where presets come in for me. They give me a reference point to start with and from their I can apply my ever-growing knowledge. This would be the shoulder to lean on I would need until I became better.
Besides, presets are created by pros right? And pros know what they are doing right? They wouldn't name a preset with the word "guitar" in it if it was meant for vocals right? These little hints really help out. It's not laziness. It's being given a candle in the darkness until we learn enough to come a brighter room where we don't need the "candles" anymore that's all.

Whaddya think?

[Heinrich Kollner]

Originally Posted by Troy Filipek

Hi all

I use presets a lot as a starting point because I am at best a beginner. I think presets won't make you lazy if you use them for the right reasons.
Here's my theory as a beginner trying to get off the ground as an engineer:
There are a shit load of articles and books ( I have a few) which go into gory detail about EQing, applying fx and so on. And most articles without exception says somewhere, "it is a matter of taste and every situation is different (in other words ...so giving specifics would be futile)" (or along those lines).

Now I know that can be true however, it would be nice to at least have some reference point to start from and this is where I believe presets come in to play. I mean everyone agrees that if you want to increase the brightness in a mix you don't increase volume in the lower frequencies. This is a fact.
Little facts like these have nothing to do with "taste" and "situations", so why can't articles just say, "do such and such at such and such a frequency and this will happen to a vocal". This would be so valuable for a beginner. Why? Because it would be a starting point. A landing on the correct planet at the very least. Then the beginner could tweak the eqing/fx (or whatever) to suit AFTER being put in the right direction.

This is where presets come in for me. They give me a reference point to start with and from their I can apply my ever-growing knowledge. This would be the shoulder to lean on I would need until I became better.
Besides, presets are created by pros right? And pros know what they are doing right? They wouldn't name a preset with the word "guitar" in it if it was meant for vocals right? These little hints really help out. It's not laziness. It's being given a candle in the darkness until we learn enough to come a brighter room where we don't need the "candles" anymore that's all.

Whaddya think?

agreed! thats exactly what I think!
well put!

[brandondrury]

I mean everyone agrees that if you want to increase the brightness in a mix you don't increase volume in the lower frequencies. This is a fact.
Little facts like these have nothing to do with "taste" and "situations", so why can't articles just say, "do such and such at such and such a frequency and this will happen to a vocal".

A fair question, but I think it supports the anti-preset view more than the pro-preset view. I think you are looking for THE answer, and there simply isn't one.

Ultimately, it comes down to cutting the frequencies that are excessive and boosting the frequencies that are insufficient in level. It simply takes practice to learn how much and where to boost/cut. This KNOW is the important part because there is no way to select the ideal preset if you don't KNOW.

A screamer cupping a SM58 sounds dramatically different from Sebastian Bach singing into a SM58 live which is dramatically different from a 15 year old girl singing into a SM 58 from 18" away. The differences are ASTOUNDING. You could come up with a few presets to use session after session with Sebastian Bach's various voices, but it will not work for David Grohl.

This would be so valuable for a beginner. Why? Because it would be a starting point.

This idea works with guitar sounds. It won't work with EQ. Why?

In a guitar preset situation, we are pretty sure what we are getting. We either have a Les Paul a Strat or something in between. The tone going in is going to be fairly predictable. This is not the case with microphones.

My EQ starting point is always nothing. If I had the right mic and preamp for the job a vocal track will require zero EQ. The same for distorted electric guitars, bass, and a bunch of other things.

I did a mix the other day. It has zero EQ on the vocal. So there is no specific thing I always do to a vocal. EQing vocals is about reducing problems or enhancing good stuff. If no problems are obvious and everything already sounds good, zero EQ is needed.

The major issue here is "if". In your own head.....screw it. I'm making a video to teach people everything they need to know about EQ in 2 minutes. I'm doing it tomorrow.

Besides, presets are created by pros right? And pros know what they are doing right? They wouldn't name a preset with the word "guitar" in it if it was meant for vocals right?

This is logical, but it isn't exactly correct. Granted, if you know the EXACT situation and the EXACT problem beforehand a pro engineer can help by giving presets. (It comes back to that KNOW thing again). In reality, if engineers did the exact same thing every time, we could automate what they do. If every engineer boosted 250Hz on their electric guitar tracks by 3dB, they could come up with a box that automatically did that each and every time and there would be absolutely no need for that $850 per day engineer. We've replaced him.

This is why Toyota, Ford, and GM use robots whenever a repeatable task comes up, but still employ zillions of people to deal with issues that simply can not be automated. If they could be automated, they would.

So I don't have any problem with EQ presets when it is VERY clear what the input signal is but blind guessing is silly in my opinion and will lead to a very confused group of young engineers getting even more confused.

Brandon

[magno]

Did I hear you use the V word Brandon?

[brandondrury]

What's the "V" word? I did a search for "Volvo" but nothing came up.

Brandon

[Vulconizer]

Mulva, is that you?

[teknospc]

Originally Posted by Heinrich Kollner

Not everyone has got expensive equipment and not everyone has got the knowledge on how certain plugins work.

I think its a way to share each others creativity.
I'd like to be of help to someone with very limited knowledge of plugins and give them some advice and presets so that they can use that plugin and actually learn from that like what settings i used and for what reasons.

and not everyone has got access to expensive guitar amps and mics, so i think it would be nice to help some one with less experience and less equipment out with cool guitar presets for revaler MKIII, guitar rig 2 and 3, amplitude, waves gtr3 ect. that has got good tone and is usable in songs, i think it opens up for alot more possibilities for beginners

100% Agree

i use some presets and many plugins, Wave Diamond and many more are very usefull, also apptriga for drums, my Gear is not a thousends of US$ and i get good sound

[sparqee]

I've been watching this thread as well as similar threads in other forums and I just realized that my own feelings on the question are based on my years working for a public library. The library is all about free information for everyone. For example: we provided automotive manuals for anyone who wanted them. It wasn't our concern if someone took that manual and wrecked their car's engine because they used the information inappropriately. I feel the same way about plugin presets. No one is going to get killed using a preset. They might make their music sound worse than it could but hopefully that will be a learning experience in it's own.

My only piece of advice is that if you apply a preset to a plugin at least spend a few moments tweaking the values to see if you can understand why it sounds the way it sounds. Learn to understand what the plugin is actually doing to your sound and then be creative with it.

[dangercityskyline]

and not everyone has got access to expensive guitar amps and mics, so i think it would be nice to help some one with less experience and less equipment out with cool guitar presets for revaler MKIII, guitar rig 2 and 3, amplitude, waves gtr3 ect. that has got good tone and is usable in songs, i think it opens up for alot more possibilities for beginners

exactly. for example, if someone finds a perfect pop-punk guitar tone in amplitude, there's not really any reason not to share that with other people making their own recordings, especially if they're having problems finding that tone themselves. and presets are great for beginners who don't quite have the hang of things yet.

With that said, once again, if there is enough interest I'll figure out a place to put it. I just can't think of a reason why I would want to download someone else's presets. It's not about skill, knowledge, or anything like that. I just prefer to salt my meat and potatoes myself.

agreed, but it's not gonna hurt to just throw it up there and let people experiment with it, because after all, they don't HAVE to use it. i think having a preset trading section would be good because it'd allow people who do want to swap presets to do so, but there's nothing saying that users who prefer to have their own presets have to use it.

also, used correctly, presets can help creativity. say for example you're stuck with a terrible vocal track. you've tried what you know, but nothing's working. so you grab someone else's presets and fix it. then you look at the presets and see what you were doing wrong, and you learn from the experience. using someone else's presets can be like a breath of fresh air, or getting a new take on something from an outside source. like this:

No one is going to get killed using a preset. They might make their music sound worse than it could but hopefully that will be a learning experience in it's own.

[Rakie]

If you have waves you can download the waves presets that all their big name guys use.

I don't have it, but it might be worth looking at as a start, or hell just to hear what the big guys do to stack it up against your own style.