Purple Rain Mix Revisited

[irawan gani]

i've been reading and reviewing and bashing songs over in the forums here.

one of the common advices that i have read are as follows.
1) bring the kick up to make it punchy.
2) bring the vocals up and compress it to give it a bigness to its vocals.
3) make the bass less muddy.
4) bring the guitar up front.
....to borrow from Yul Bryner's King Mongkut... etc etc etc

(in a nutshell, my conclusion may be wrong but roughly thats it)
i believe that they are all good and valid advice.

i was listening to Purple Rain just earlier today and it struck me how much it moves away from all the advice i have mentioned above.

compared to Beat It, which was THE recording standard of that day (some say still is), it is not of 'high quality' (for lack of a better term).

Beat It sounds polished, crisp, clear. basically it follows all the advices that we in this forum have been 'preaching'.

Comparatively, Purple Rain, had its snare drum so very loud that it overpowers everything else. if you dont believe me, listen to it. it is as if, the snare WAS the main vocals. and the guitar was untastefully delayed (compared to tastefully delayed by lets say.. David Gilmour).... and so on so forth, you guys get the picture. the kick was small compared to the snare.. VERY small.

now, David Z, the guy who engineered the album, although not as legendary as Quincy Jones, is no amateur.

my first question is: at a time, when crisp clear mixes were easily achieved, why do YOU think he mixed it in such a way?

my second question is: with reference to the Death Magnetic bashing thread a while ago, how does a 'terrible' sounding record (if you want to call it that, but feel free to bash me if you disagree) be one of the pinnacles of music recording? sub question: how come, in your opinion, Death Magnetic is a terrible record? (give other reasons other than metallica's a washed up band and loads of clipping on the record).

PS-i think that Thriller and Purple Rain are great records in terms of engineering and songwriting.

[irawan gani]

forgot to mention... purple rain was recorded live...

[shiva]

I am the biggest fan of purple rain and all other albums before Prince started doing something he has no ability to do which is rapping. He sucked like a baboons rotten testicles at that.

Purple rain was recorded in a warehouse with microphones and mixers all over the place. The fantastic thing is that, he pulled it through the mix just nicely eventhough there are some parts with noise and small (very minute) tempo loss, but again it is a musical marvel.

I always played that guitar solo during my practice exercises to create the mood.. just simply awesome!

[irawan gani]

Originally Posted by shiva

I am the biggest fan of purple rain and all other albums before Prince started doing something he has no ability to do which is rapping. He sucked like a baboons rotten testicles at that.

Purple rain was recorded in a warehouse with microphones and mixers all over the place. The fantastic thing is that, he pulled it through the mix just nicely eventhough there are some parts with noise and small (very minute) tempo loss, but again it is a musical marvel.

I always played that guitar solo during my practice exercises to create the mood.. just simply awesome!

heheheh yes he did. but he did alright. he probably wasnt really rapping, more like chanting as i used to call it... he didnt do much with it though.

anyway, sorry to burst your bubble about the warehouse story. it was recorded in a club called Nacirema Club in downtown Minneapolis. it was intended to be recorded live with a small audience. he promoted it as a benefit for the local dance company to ensure that the turnout to be small. his idea was to capture it in an intimate setting. and it was meant to be unpredictable and a bit loose.

but my point was... it worked. it did give us that intimate setting. no matter how 'shitty' the recording was.

[Bigduggieface]

It just goes to show. A great song and a great performance are the most important elements. The recording quality is important, but it takes a back seat. We in the digital age often forget this.

Purple Rain (the album and the song) was a major worldwide success. Yeah, now that you mention it, the recording quality and mix decisions were unusual, especially in retrospect, but we tune into the emotion and performance more than anything.

Prince has never been one to follow too many trends. I admire the fact that he and his records buck trends.

Take 'When Doves Cry' from the Purple Rain album. Rumor has it that late in the mix stage Prince decided to remove the bass. Everyone thought he was crazy until the song shot to the top of the charts and was Billboard's #1 song of the year. One of the few #1 songs that ever topped charts with drums and no bass guitar.

I was lucky enough to catch Prince live in 2002 in a 1000-seat theatre with great acoustics. When they did 'Purple Rain', there were literally people weeping all around me with joy. Fuckin' incredible! This will always be the guy's signature song.

You can find more info about the recording of Purple Rain HERE.

[irawan gani]

Originally Posted by Bigduggieface

I was lucky enough to catch Prince live in 2002 in a 1000-seat theatre with great acoustics. When they did 'Purple Rain', there were literally people weeping all around me with joy. Fuckin' incredible! This will always be the guy's signature song.

oh man... i would be weepin' too.

[mindundermatter]

To the first question, I have no idea. To the second question, I think Death Magnetic is a great record. Yes, it sounds terrible, but song-wise it brought them back to stuff they were doing circa ...And Justice For All and the Black Album. I think Purple Rain might've had the same sort of deal. Sounds terrible, but great songwriting.

[irawan gani]

'justice for all' sounds crap but with great songs. loved the album to death. black album, defined the modern metal drum sound.

to me at least...

[mindundermatter]

'justice for all' sounds crap but with great songs. loved the album to death. black album, defined the modern metal drum sound.

to me at least...

Exactly.

[irawan gani]

Originally Posted by mindundermatter

To the first question, I have no idea.

i am half expecting prince or david z to come in here in this humble forum to explain their decisions...

fingers crossed.