Another new guy

[coguinn]

New to the forums. I'm a drummer and have a Mac, a Firepod, an Audix Fusion drum mic kit and various other mics. As you can see, I'm just starting out, buying a new piece as the bank account allows.

I have a few questions to all of you seasoned members.

One, as far as signal paths go, how are hardware units (compressors, eqs, tube mic-pres, etc.) used with
an interface like the Firepod? I assume the Firepod has to be last?? (No laughing...Brandon, they laughed at me)

Two, any thoughts on plug-ins vs. hardware. One, the other, both?

Three, anyone have a Firepod and have a favorite piece they use with it? Plug-in, mic, effects unit, monitors, etc.

Thanks guys. Look forward to it...Chris

[lcadwell]

Hey dude.

Looks like a nice piece of gear. If your looking to record the effects then I'd say yes, the firepod has to be last. However if you just want to hear the effects but record without them (you could add them in later to perfect them) then you could just put the effects on the output of the firepod. I'm no expert but apparently this is the way it should be done because once you've recorded effects you can't take them out or back them off after.

Like when recording vocals most singers like a like to hear a little reverb but you shouldn't record the reverb so you can tinker with it after. This is the way I'll probably record if I ever get off my lazy ass but you can do as you wish. One of the advantages to not recording the effects is if say you get a nicer effects pedal or software plugin later on, you can process using that. But if you totally happy with your current effects then there's nothing to stop you recording with them. It's all down to personal preference.

As for hardware vs software, there's a few things to consider. If your looking to listen to the effects as you record, hardware is usually the better option. Software plugins can have a delay. How much depends on your computer, soundcard etc but a delay none the less. If it's barely noticeable then great but hardware generally does not have this problem. But if you've got 'cheap' hardware then the quality might not be so great. For example I've got a Zoom guitar fx pedal which is cool to play with and has a load of effects on it, but it's quite cheap and the quality is not something I'd consider recording with. Software plugins can generally be more versatile and easier to use than hardware but it all depends on how well they were developed.

Now I'll hand over to one of the gurus to tell you what terrible advice I've given you

All the best with your recording adventures and I hope I'll see a song up here soon.

Luke

[Ibanez_shredder]

welcome, I am a well seasoned percussionist my self. nice to see people still motivated about percussive arts. Rock on man!

[coguinn]

Thanks guys.

Still, to use outboard effects, etc. I would record directly into the Firepod and use send/outs to add, say, compression from a rack unit, back into the Firepod?

See what I'm getting at? I'm just wondering about the signal path and how it seems it would need to come full circle. Is this how this would be done, without committing a processed sound originally?

Thanks again,
C

[lcadwell]

Unless the software allows you to monitor both the pre-send and post-send on channel 1 you'll just be recording the wet (fx) signal. To get around this and I'm not sure how well this would work, you can either:

Use a splitter cable, the single end goes into the fx send (pre-amp output) of channel 1, one of the double ends goes into the fx return (line input on the back) of channel 1, the other end goes into the fx unit and then the fx unit plugs it's output into channel 2's fx return (line input on the back). That way you'll have clean sounds on channel 1 to record with and the one with effects on channel 2. I don't know if you could then turn down the mix of channel 1 but still record it at full volume on the computer.

The other way involves using a mixing console and then taking the fx send from channel 1 into that, using the console's fx send and return to pluig the fx box in, and outputing pre fx back to channel 1 on the firepod, and then listening using the console's headphones (with the post-fx).

I think that's right. This would allow you to listen to your signal with effects but still record it without them so you can add them later. An easier way, is to use the software effects in the computer. Most programs will allow you to listen with effects but record without. Obviously this creates that delay problem thing I talked about earlier.

Best of luck.

P.S. This is probably all completely wrong.

[Ibanez_shredder]

i agree with icadwell;s second suggestion. the splitter idea is the last resort i would say. although it is les expensive

[coguinn]

Thanks guys, I'll see what I can come up with and post something for everyone to hear/bash.

-C

[brandondrury]

One, as far as signal paths go, how are hardware units (compressors, eqs, tube mic-pres, etc.) used with
an interface like the Firepod? I assume the Firepod has to be last?? (No laughing...Brandon, they laughed at me)

Who laughed at you? I'm horrified that people make fun of those who are actively trying to learn.

If budget is an issue (you mentioned it was) there is little need to put anything in front of the Firepod. Use plugins for now. I've been recording nearly full time since 2001 and I bought my first hardware compressor last night if that tells you anything.

Two, any thoughts on plug-ins vs. hardware. One, the other, both?

I go into great detail on this in my upcoming home recording book. Plugins are damn good, dramatically less expensive, and can actually be used in mixing. (If you are mixing in the box, those hardware boxes do you zero good in most instances). I'd go with a Focusrite Liquidmix or UAD-1 card first.

I bought a Distressor last night to see if I can get anything magical during tracking that I can't get with plugins. I'll have a definite answer for you in a week or two.

if you just want to hear the effects but record without them (you could add them in later to perfect them) then you could just put the effects on the output of the firepod. I'm

I'm not exactly sure how your rig is setup, but I just do all of this within Cubase. I add compression and reverb in Cubase while tracking and then swap compressors and reverbs when I get to the mixing stages.

Software plugins can have a delay.

True, but this is a non factor for me as I simply don't use the plugins with high latency during tracking. There are many plugins that add no noticeable latency. During mixing this is a non-issue.

Brandon

[coguinn]

Brandon:

Thanks for the info. No one made fun of me, I was making a joke. Sorry.

Here's where I am, equipment-wise:

Computer:
Mac Mini - 1.42 Ghz Power PC G4 (Pre-Intel)
512 MB DDR SDRAM (will be maximizing my memory to 1 GB, asap)
OS 10.4.11

Hardware:
Presonus Firepod (pre-FP10, far as I know, it's identical)
Audix Fusion 7 pc Mic kit
Audix OM3 (purchased for live/rehearsal vocals)
SM57

Software:
Ableton Live 5
Cubase SX (Also have LE)
Garageband

Drums:
6 pc Pearl Masters Studio, w/Sabians
5 pc PDP w/Paiste 2002s

As you can see, I'm a drummer and made the initial purchase of the Firepod and mic kit so I could record my drums. Now I've been tracking for a while
and am wanting to invest in better mics (looking at 421s for the toms, D112 for the kick, several large diaphragm condensers for room mics/overheads)
as well as some better plug-ins.

Sounds like plug-ins are the way to go from here. I'm looking for some good compressors, reverbs, EQs... any suggestions? Any other plug-ins good for drums? Anyone have one they just can't do without?

Also, I will be remodeling a room for a rehearsal room, as I know my drums themselves sound good, but the room is the next important thing, then mics, etc. down the chain. I like the drums prominent in the mix, so the room, for me is the best place to start to get my kit where I want it when tape rolls.

BTW: GREAT SITE

-Chris