Time Signatures

[MustBeBrutal]

Im having a little trouble figuring out time signatures
Can anyone help me out?

[richiebee]

top number is the number of beats to a bar, bottom number defines the length of each beat. Top number is pretty self explanatory... bottom number is....

1 = whole note
2 = half note
4 = quarter note
8 = eighth note
16 = sixteenth note.
32 = thirtysecond note
64 = sixtyfourth note

Think of the bottom note as how many beats there would be if the time signature was 4/4 or 4 quarter notes.

Most pop stuff is in 4/4 time.

In one respect, 4/4 time is the same as 2/2 time and the same as 8/8 time. But the time signature also tells musicians something about the feel or natural accenting of beats - A DAW doesn't know the difference, but a trained musician plays something in 2/2 time with a different "groove" to 4/4.

The time signature has no relevance to the smallest note value you use in your music.

Need any more? If so, ask a more specific question.

[brandondrury]

In one respect, 4/4 time is the same as 2/2 time and the same as 8/8 time. But the time signature also tells musicians something about the feel or natural accenting of beats

Good. My weakest area. Let's talk about it.

This "feel" you are talking about is what happens in between the beats, right? I'm kinda thinking of this in terms of resolution (more or less). Is it safe to say that 8/8 is going to come out sounding more rigid than than 4/4 or 2/2? I don't mean "rigid" in a bad way, necessarily, in this case but I hate to say the word "tighter". It seems that 2/2 would give more room to play than 2/2. Am I wrong?

This time signature business effects where the downbeat is right? So standard 4/4 would be something like

KICK snare kick snare KICK snare kick snare

whereas 3/4 would be

KICK snare snare KICK snare snare

right?


Brandon

[MatsonMusicBox]

tough area in some cases .... I like to think about it like this for most common sigs

• 4/4 - most pop/rock songs - we know and love this one
• 3/4 - commonly - "waltz" time - with emphasis on 1st beat - you got it backwards it would be snare kick, kick technically - though most rock 3/4 play it kick, kick snare.
• 2/2 - think of it as a "march" beat - lot of miltary type songs use this - generally has a faster feel than 4/4
• 6/8 - similar to 3/4, but more of a "flowy feel" to it - is the emphasis every 6 or every 3? 6/8 to me feels more like playing triplets in 4/4.
• Usually don't see many others in rock/pop - occasionally 7/4 or 7/8 - i.e. Much of Pink Floyd's "Money" and Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill". I think "Colour My World" (Chicago was like 12/8 or something though I think of it as a 6/8
• You'll see all kinds of stuff in Jazz - 5/4, 9/8, whatever

[ExSaint1379]

Originally Posted by MatsonMusicBox

tough area in some cases .... I like to think about it like this for most common sigs

• 4/4 - most pop/rock songs - we know and love this one
• 3/4 - commonly - "waltz" time - with emphasis on 1st beat - you got it backwards it would be snare kick, kick technically - though most rock 3/4 play it kick, kick snare.
• 2/2 - think of it as a "march" beat - lot of miltary type songs use this - generally has a faster feel than 4/4
• 6/8 - similar to 3/4, but more of a "flowy feel" to it - is the emphasis every 6 or every 3? 6/8 to me feels more like playing triplets in 4/4.
• Usually don't see many others in rock/pop - occasionally 7/4 or 7/8 - i.e. Much of Pink Floyd's "Money" and Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill". I think "Colour My World" (Chicago was like 12/8 or something though I think of it as a 6/8
• You'll see all kinds of stuff in Jazz - 5/4, 9/8, whatever

One small correction. 6/8 doesn't feel like playing triplets; it is palying triplets. It's a compound rhythm meaning that the beat will be a dotted note (usally quarter like in 6/8) and the subdivision of the beat is three triplets. The Emphasis is exactly same as 2/4. On the first of each set of triplets.

Now to answer the OP. Rhythm is as complex as you want to make it. There have been good answers so far but I'm going to explain it again. I'm into prog and classical so seeing 21/8 or 11/8 (this is nearly impossible to play; I swear it's the hardest rhtyhm to read) is not uncommon and in classical piano playing two rhythms, one with each hand is not uncommon from music of the twenith century.

Our Rhythm system is to make sure the first beat of every measure is emphasized meaning you play it harder than you would the second beat (music history taught me alot of worthless things).
So the number on top is the number of beats in a measure. In other words you count that many times (you should always count in your head or out loud while your playing; it keeps you in time). The bottom number is what gets the beat. Now to fully understand that statement, you need to have a teacher explain it to you in person. So if you don't fully get it, it's fine. Only the number of beats in a measure matter at first.

If you are in 4/4 (which is the most natural rhythm in our music system) you count while you are playing, One, Two, Three, Four. Between 4 and 1 there is the exact same amount of time as between any of the other numbers not double the amount (I get asked that alot as a music teacher so I usally explain it beforehand). If you are in two four you would count, One, Two, One, Two. Now this is going to seem odd because you'll come to the question what's the difference between them. I'm not going to answer this, becuase it will only make things more confusing. Usally right now I would ask the group of kids so how do you count 3/4 and make them clap to it.

Compound Rhythm is way more complicated and you'll have to respond you understand what Simple Rhythm is before I'll explain Compound Rhythm (which is what I was talking about in the begining).

[Xplora]

If you want the best explanation of time signatures, it is this :

Time signatures are completely, and utterly, irrevelent, to the composer who is just creating as they see fit. A lot of interesting music is the product of ignoring the conventions of blues/rock. Reggae's off beat accents, clave rhythm's 1 2 3, 1 2, pattern, tons of world music... not to mention myriad prog music etc.

When it comes down to it, you have to learn what is a strong beat, what is a weak beat. Tap it out with your hands and feet. Once you get your head around a rhythm, do something different. The emphasis on the different beats just changes everything.

When it comes down to it, time signature is a tyranny inflicted on us by composers who score everything. If you're just jamming with a couple of friends, you don't need to care.

[sparqee]

Originally Posted by Xplora

When it comes down to it, time signature is a tyranny inflicted on us by composers who score everything. If you're just jamming with a couple of friends, you don't need to care.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is to simply consider it to be a means of communication. Classically trained musicians are often times happiest counting, while some other musicians prefer to just feel the groove. Being able to effective communicate musical ideas is important if you work with other musicians, but not every musician is comfortable communicating in the same ways.

If you're recording music in a DAW and are interested in having your musical phrases line up with bar lines then it's helpful to make sure your DAW is counting in the same time signature that you are playing in. If none of these reasons are important to you then... just play.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by Xplora

If you want the best explanation of time signatures, it is this :

Time signatures are completely, and utterly, irrevelent, to the composer who is just creating as they see fit.

When it comes down to it, time signature is a tyranny inflicted on us by composers who score everything.

What a load of bollocks.

[brandondrury]

I spent essentially every waking moment of the past 4 days recording a band. They were a rock band, but all of them spoke this time signature language perfectly and it worked for all of them. They communicated very well.

They could have just called a section "the scary part", but instead they called "6/8 time part". It worked.

Brandon

[Progressionmusic]

Originally Posted by ExSaint1379

11/8 (this is nearly impossible to play; I swear it's the hardest rhtyhm to read)

I have to disagree with you on the 11/8 time signature (yet i can't tell if it's the hardest to read as I don't read alot of music). It's as easy to play as any time signature (I don't play a lot of piano/keyboard, being mainly a bass guitarist and rythm guitarist); tempo (beats per minute) and technical-melodic complexity (where to put your hands/fingers, and the rythm/groove) is what makes it hard to play.

And since you're into progressive music: Take Tool's "Right in Two" for example. It has a 11/8 (or 11/4 depending on your choise of bpm) time signature. The rythm is quite playable and the chords are easy (yet lovely in my ears). And yet some other parts of this song might make you feel like you're breaking your fingers (at least on a guitar)