How do you write your songs??

[sp4585]

This question is to everyone out there who has any song writing responsibility within their group or who writes everything on their own. I'm interested in hearing different groups'/artists' approaches to song writing.

I personally have been in a few different groups that have all taken different approaches to song writing. I also write songs for pleasure on my own.

My first band's songs were basically crafted 80% by our lead guitarist. He wrote songs and brought them to the band, dictating the various parts. Our drummer basically just followed the pre crafted rhythm as did the bass player. We wrote harmonies after the majority of the song was done.

My next band took a completely democratic approach where whoever had any type of idea would just throw it out there and the song was built and written together.

My third band was a little more like the first one except it was a three piece and the song ideas were a lot looser when they were brought to the band. Actually each member except for the drummer wrote several songs - at least as a basic chord structure and idea.

The band I am in now is very much a democracy where the two guitarists bring their song ideas to be built and finished by the whole band.

Through each of these groups, I've seen three distinctly different approaches to the writing of guitar and vocal melody in the beginning stages.

1) A very distinctive guitar piece is grown and basically dictates what the whole song will do outside of arrangement. Whenever the root note is hit (which is usually at very defined and specific times), the rhythm sections must follow suit. I hope that makes sense.

2) A rough idea for a guitar piece, with some vocal melody in mind, grows and gains some rhythmic distinction as the idea is hashed out before putting together rough arrangement and full melody (or vice versa).

3) A basic chord structure is arranged with minimal detail while an accompanying vocal melody pulls the unwritten guitar parts in certain directions. The vocal melody perpetuates the guitar part onward so that the pieces work together well.

I know personally, on my own I lean most toward the 3rd description but have written things more like the second and even first at times.

Thanks in advance.

[saint_berzerker]

I dunno if I'm really going to benefit anybody, lol, but I'll explain how I do it.

I don't have a band right now, so I do it all myself. I don't do vocals, I'm just doing the guitars/bass/drums.

I play a fast rock/metal so I'm kind of a 'mathematician' about it all. It's definitely more robotic writing this stuff than regular rock/pop stuff.

I'm a guitarist foremost...so the riff comes first. As soon as I get a good intro riff going, I try to estimate the speed (bpm) by tabbing it all on a program called GuitarPro.

I find the closest tempo that equals the original riffage and start writing the drum parts ( I use Drumsite ). There's just no way you can put down guitar tracks without the drums first. So, I write the drum parts with the tempo I calculated from the above way. Just the basic beats for now...fills/fancy stuff comes later.

Then the bass. I don't just write off the bass and throw some crappy line down assuming it won't be heard. I just bought a new Tbird bass.

I hate basslines that follow the guitar exactly. I always purposely deviate from the guitar lines. I try to follow the drums, but use the basic guitar outline. Again, I map the bassline out with the tabbing tool.

I'm sure that's probably not what you're looking for, lol, but there's my 2 cents.

[Zen Bones]

In the first group I was in, it was a duo and the songwriting was almost exactly 50/50. We'd sit together, he'd throw out guitar riffs (I didn't play back then) and I'd help piece the music together. Sometimes we'd make a game out of it, with each person writing every other lyric. We even had a chord chart taped to a dartboard. You wouldn't believe how many songs we wrote just hitting three chords at random, and trying to find a way to sequence them into a song. Definetly pushed us to try things that weren't intuitive.

The 2nd group we were in was a trio, and we alternated between every method you can think of. Ocassionally one member would show up to practice with a completed song and the other musicians would write parts around them, but most often the bassist and guitarist would jam out riffs and I'd hollar out "That one there, just keep doing that for a few minutes!" and I'd scramble to get something written down. We didn't have any way to record, so if something didn't end with actual lyrics and structure, we'd usually forgotten it by the next practice.

Since then I've been writing on my own. I usually write with a guitar, and it's usually some aspect of the guitar that comes first, with lyrics and melody fitting around that. If I try writing on keys everything I do just sounds trancy and droning. I don't know why, but I've never been able to write a song holding a bass. But just because a song starts with a guitar, doesn't mean that they all end up "guitar songs". I had at least one song that I wrote on guitar, recorded guitar and vocals to a click track, and by the time I'd layered all the other instrument tracks, I ended up removing the guitar altogether.

~Zen

[wavey]

I feel that the essence of a song is the vocal melody. The song usually starts with one of the members (usually the singer) coming up with a simple verse melody and chord progression, when the idea peters out i find it useful to encourage the vocalist to sing the song without any instuments at all and then when he reaches the point at which the chord progression would end to see where the melody leads him, this can be at a rehearsal or more usually when he is alone . It is suprisingly easy to let a vocal melody soar to new areas and ideas when freed from instrumental constraints. When and if something tasty emerges he either records the vocal on a tape machine or similair for the band to work out the backing later, or we do it there and then if he is in the studio.

Bridges and riffs etc seem just to happen when jamming the new idea.

[sp4585]

Originally Posted by saint_berzerker

I dunno if I'm really going to benefit anybody, lol, but I'll explain how I do it.

Hey man, songwriting is songwriting. As long as it benefits you, right? Either way, I was just looking to see a wide variety of different approaches toward the same goal.

Originally Posted by saint_berzerker

I hate basslines that follow the guitar exactly. I always purposely deviate from the guitar lines. I try to follow the drums, but use the basic guitar outline. Again, I map the bassline out with the tabbing tool.

I definitely hear you. A good bass line that supports, but does not follow the lead, can add such a great depth and dimension to a song.

Originally Posted by wavey

I feel that the essence of a song is the vocal melody. The song usually starts with one of the members (usually the singer) coming up with a simple verse melody and chord progression, when the idea peters out i find it useful to encourage the vocalist to sing the song without any instuments at all and then when he reaches the point at which the chord progression would end to see where the melody leads him, this can be at a rehearsal or more usually when he is alone . It is suprisingly easy to let a vocal melody soar to new areas and ideas when freed from instrumental constraints.

Interesting approach I haven't ever really dabbled with except for maybe one time. My song that I posted here was a vocal idea before it was anything else. I wrote most of the lyrics and vocal melody before I wrote anything else. The song I'm referring to is posted under Bash This Song - it is "Goddess Divine". Don't know the post number or subject off hand.

[brandondrury]

I don't like writing with other people. My ideas are sometimes bold and the last thing I want to do is throw that boldness away. I find that group songwriting has it's merits, but it tends to round of the edges. If anyone wants to go too far with something, the democratic process (much like our government's methods) tends to sort of smooth it out. The end result tends to be nothing to good and nothing too bad....mediocre.

Personally, I like coming up with the vocal melody first. I'm a pop guy (at least on things pre-1994) and I want to hear catchy vocal melodies. I can always make a metal song out of it later.

I find that I do like using democracy when arranging a song. So once a song kicks major ass on an acoustic guitar, it's nice to have a little bit of help wit arranging. I guess there are just too many options in the early part of the songwriting process. Once you get the ideas pinned down, help from other members seams to help a lot.

I think this is why most bands have crappy songs. They jump into the arranging before the song is even written.

Brandon

[fumetas]

For me, the most important thing when it comes to songwriting is to leave any internal or external pressures behind, as that is something that hits the quality of you music right in the face.

My approach is to let the music flow by itself, which means that I can spend up to several weeks or even months without writing a song (but playing everyday) only to find myself writing 3,4 or 5 decent songs in a row, having, all of a sudden, plenty of ideas and melodies in my head.

I don't know if this happens to you, but for me, the creative process usually starts in the same way: I'm playing my guitar or piano and suddenly one of the chords or single notes that I play just sounds different to me, as if it was a totally new chord or note that sounds so good and "fresh" to my ears that makes me somehow "follow" that "new sound" and see where does it lead me to.

Like Bob Dylan supposedly said once, "the song is there, somewhere, and I just need to find it". That's pretty much the way it works for me.

I know there are more convential ways to write a song, but I think that the let-the-song-pop-up-by-itself-rule is quite an interesting one.

[Smidgelton]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

I don't like writing with other people. My ideas are sometimes bold and the last thing I want to do is throw that boldness away. I find that group songwriting has it's merits, but it tends to round of the edges. If anyone wants to go too far with something, the democratic process (much like our government's methods) tends to sort of smooth it out. The end result tends to be nothing to good and nothing too bad....mediocre.

Brandon

I agree with this. 5 people can't express your ideas better than you can by yourself.

[sp4585]

I imagine it would be an incredible and rare occurrance to find a group of musicians who all fully grasped the idea, emotion and potential of a song and developed it to the fullest without clashing and cancelling out creative ingenuity.

[brandondrury]

I imagine it would be an incredible and rare occurrance to find a group of musicians who all fully grasped the idea, emotion and potential of a song and developed it to the fullest without clashing and cancelling out creative ingenuity.

VERY well spoken!!

Brandon