composing/arrangement tips

[John Alex]

I'd really like to know more about song composition and recording. Can anybody post me a link?

[newkid]

google
song composition
lots of stuff out there

[TonyB]

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[garageband]

Originally Posted by newkid

google
song composition
lots of stuff out there

Falling back into the whomping habit of flip yet useless advice. This not a google moment; it's really more of a textbook moment. Perhaps you could make yourself useful and research one to recommend.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by garageband

Falling back into the whomping habit of flip yet useless advice. This not a google moment; it's really more of a textbook moment. Perhaps you could make yourself useful and research one to recommend.

that advice was very useful to the original poster
i found way too much to provide here
they need to select what matches their needs


not my job to be every persons personal secretary and do their work for them

now if they had done something and had a real question i would gladly be more specific and willing to help

i could ask why you dont google their answer
instead of just dumping on me for telling them how to fish forever
instead of feeding them fishbait

[Innovine]

As the original poster, I'd just like to add that "go google it" is entirely useless.

You think I didn't do that already? Or was the really helpful part the phrase "song composition". Wow, I never thought of that..

Perhaps what I'm really after is some dialog with people who have actually met and struggled with this same issue. After all, that's why I posted in a forum. After I'd googled a whole lot.

[newkid]

Originally Posted by Innovine

As the original poster, I'd just like to add that "go google it" is entirely useless.

You think I didn't do that already? Or was the really helpful part the phrase "song composition". Wow, I never thought of that..

Perhaps what I'm really after is some dialog with people who have actually met and struggled with this same issue. After all, that's why I posted in a forum. After I'd googled a whole lot.

then be more specific
and maybe we can help


there are millions of pages out there
how do we know which one can help you

if you googled
did you read any of the stuff you found?
if so you should be able to ask a real question not just a
tell me all about composing type of query

want dialog then tell us a problem you had
maybe we can give you a solution

dont understand soemthing
then ask about that specifically

and yes i did think you had not googled
there are so many posts like this every day
everybody wants everything handed to them with no effort
i see it all the time on every bbs/forum
you wont believe the number of people too lazy to even read their fine manual and just ask us to point them to the page
although they would rather we retyped it so they didnt have to open it for themselves

[Innovine]

Originally Posted by newkid

then be more specific
and maybe we can help


there are millions of pages out there
how do we know which one can help you

if you googled
did you read any of the stuff you found?
if so you should be able to ask a real question not just a
tell me all about composing type of query

want dialog then tell us a problem you had
maybe we can give you a solution

dont understand soemthing
then ask about that specifically

and yes i did think you had not googled
there are so many posts like this every day
everybody wants everything handed to them with no effort
i see it all the time on every bbs/forum
you wont believe the number of people too lazy to even read their fine manual and just ask us to point them to the page
although they would rather we retyped it so they didnt have to open it for themselves

Thanks for your help

[newkid]

Originally Posted by John Alex

I'd really like to know more about song composition and recording. Can anybody post me a link?

okay
here is a link

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & moreComposition-Theory-Performance-Music-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=4541

[Danny Danzi]

Hey Newkid, for what it's worth (and this is no disrespect meant to John Alex) but if I saw the question of

"I'd really like to know more about song composition and recording. Can anybody post me a link?"

I'd respond either the way you did or not respond at all because it's such a loaded question, that makes me think "hey I've done nothing, do the work for me". I actually thought this was what you were responding to.

Innovine, I thought your original questions were in depth and worthy of the good replies you received. I don't think Newkid was really responding to you when he mentioned the google thing. If you read the post that I *think* he was responding to, like I said above, it was such a loaded question, it almost seemed like a joke to ask on a forum such as this one. Again I mean no disrespect to that poster, but it's easy to see how someone would sort of say what Newkid offered...or like myself, ignore it completely.

That said, after reading over the replies here, just jamming out is cool like what you're doing. However, the most important thing I can offer here is it's a good idea to have a little theory under your belt. Meaning, whoever is playing guitar should know a little something about chords, structures and segues (pronouced seg-ways which means the gluing together of song content) so you know what you're up against. Like if you're jamming over a progression of A D and E, G# may not be a good change you can work in unless you know how to go about it. A little chord structure theory can help a lot in this area as well as being familiar with chord phrasing. After a certain period of time, you just know what works and it's not as much of a guessing game.

For example, I can listen to something and tell you what chords are going on without having my guitar with me. I can visualize what's going on. If the progression is E F# A and D, I'll hear that in my head. I might be a whole step off up or down with the actual key because I do not have perfect pitch, but the progression will be in my head to where I can figure it out in 5 seconds if I had a guitar in my hands.

Knowing progressions is very important. This way you kinda get a feel for what works and what may not. There are no rules of course and with a little work, you can make ANY chord structure work, but you have to go about it the right way. I usually try to start with a formula. Some people are against this, but to me, it's very important when you are just starting out because it will give you the feel of what should be happening. Once you get a grasp on things, you won't have to formulate as much.

For example, I try to think of my songs like a movie. You have a beginning that sets the mood, a middle that tells the story, a climax that is the "the good part" and then an ending that seals the fate of your listeners. These parts can be anything you want them to be...but with a formula, you can then get your thoughts together.

For our beginning, you can start with something synthy...moody, or come in heavy with a power riff or maybe even your main chorus line with or without the vocals. From there, you make up your mind that you need to either change key for your verse, or do a little "carry over" for one measure that may help to put you into the next key for that verse. Your verses and if you add a pre-chorus (this sets you up for your chorus) are your middle. They tell the story in your song.

For the climax, this is your chorus...the most important part of the song. After this, if you're a guitar player, you may want to do a crazy solo or something...or maybe you opt to have an all out band jam that changes key instead of a solo. All these are your climax points. Then of course, you have your end...maybe you want to hit the chorus hard and go from cut time to double time...maybe you want to fly in loads of back up harmonies, maybe you want to have a guitar solo outro or maybe you want a band power jam here that either fades away into the abyss or has an abrupt ending?

There are no rules...but it's nice to have a bit of a formula to help you to write. Kinda like building a house. You'd not try to build the house without your plans, right? Sure, half the fun of songwriting is being spontaneous and not adhearing to any rules...however, sometimes we need a little help and the formula could be the thing that helps put your stuff over the top. So think about that and see where it may take you. Best of luck!