Are there any full time musicians out there?

[Tony B]

Well - it's time for another thread. Thanks to all who assisted me with responses to my last thread on selling CD's. Now ... I'm interested to know if there are any musicians out there making a crust out of their music - in particular traditional musicians who play gigs, instruments and write their own tunes. I'd like to know about their journey - what's worked or hasn't with marketing and promotion? Have they written up a business plan? - can they share this knowledge? How have they gone with touring? How do you predict who's going to turn up to the shows? How do you locate YOUR audience? All these issues are important. So ... if there are any DIY original musicians out there who are living the dream - please share your journey with us and let us dream about giving up the rat race for a life of rock and roll!

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Brewin on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

[TonyB]

Hey, this is TonyB... not to be confused with yourself.

I'm not a full-time musician. Many times I wished I were, but got too old for that.

As a studio owner, I do help promote an artist from time to time. However, they are only part time at this point (can't quit their day jobs until they "make it.")

What are they doing in the meantime? Cutting a production-quality demo CD (that's where my studio comes in) and promoting themselves on MySpace.

I met Jen Foster (she's on MySpace) in Nashville a couple of months ago.

Jen Foster : singer/songwriter

She's completely independent... does her own promotion, her own distribution, her own booking, etc...except she has a deal with East Iris Records (Nashville)... and hired a well-known producer for her last CD. However, she sells enough of her music via MySpace and her shows (sells he CDs) to be full-time. She's got a semi-national fan base (in which she's working hard to expand).

[whomper]

not many full time musicians
and most of them are gig to gig not long term contract

met a guy from the national symphony
he wasnt making squat - compared to the work he did
but he had a full time contract

county symphony - rotflmao
they have full time jobs

if you dont love music
dont do it
not going to make a living at it
unless you are one of the three tenors or equivalent


like basketball baseball football soccer hollywood opera etc
handful of paid pros in the bigs

many wannabees playing hoops in their driveway
some better ones in a rec league
maybe a few getting minimum wage in some minor league somewhere

most artists dont want to do the biz stuff needed to make it big
promotion is the name of the game
and that eats up so much time and energy you cant make new music

[paul999]

Well some people call me a professional musician but if it is all earned from playing gigs then you wouldn't. Loreena Mckennitt is a very successful Canadian musician who independently made a million dollar company with her shows and album sales before being signed one of the sweetest deals ever by sony music. The reason, because she didn't need them. She calculated that 12% of her time was playing music. So I'm not sure that she would qualify to your criteria.

As for me I own a teaching studio with 10 teachers. I teach the people I wish to like pro players and special circumstances. I started the company from $0. I spend 50% of my days working on records that my studio is contracted for. I do various other jobs (musically related) sound, gigging, school workshops and community minded events etc. Honestly I could retire anytime I want but I choose not to. I was basically a street kid that wanted to be a musician. No family, ,no luck, no money and little future. I made a plan and stuck to it and was always open to try new opportunities. My basic rule that is broken from time to time is this.

Try to be the star and you pay. Make someone else the star and you get paid.

[Starlight182]

Very good question. My first EP is going to be released on Tuesday. I have a decent sized fanbase (35k friends on MySpace). I'm extremely curious to see how I will do.

Your definition of "full time" might be different from mine though. I'd be happy with making $400 a month because I live with my parents and I go to college. I just have to pay for my cell phone and gas.

[Danny Danzi]

I'm a bit late in answering this thread, but I had some pretty cool info to share, so I figured I'd comment here. I've been surviving off of music full time since 1999. I remember before that time, I was working in a family business, my original stuff and playing in a Van Halen tribute band from 1994 until 1997.

The family business I had crashed hard in 1996 and went into chapter 11 and forced my family into bankruptcy. House was up for Sheriff sale, I had nowhere to go and was looking for work. I found a job at my public library and told them I would work as their handy-man for free internet. LOL!

This worked out quite nicely as I was able to build a little website and post up some material in hopes of shopping a deal. At the time, I was with Taxi from 1996 until 1999...and let me tell you guys that have asked about it, it's a waste of time and money. Michael Laskow and his band of "formerlys" are just that....formerly fired from real labels that have no power to do anything with your music. I submitted about 50 songs in my 3 years with that company and only one got an option to be featured on a compilation CD. I declined.

Anyway, back to the library. I was introduced by one of the librarians, to a guy that was heavily connected with Sony. The guy was more famous than I had known at the time....he wrote the music for the movie "Rock around the clock" and loved my stuff. I got a developmental deal with Sony (also know as a spec deal) which never materialized into anything because it wasn't my time stylistically....actually, I was too late to the 80's rock party but they felt there might be a second coming, so they held on to me.

In the meantime, the advance I received from the label was fairly generous. Nothing huge, but enough to where I made a call to a Sheriff friend I knew that put a freeze on selling my house for me when I presented him with a few bucks. I then met a friend that had created a website for a band called Heavens Edge and we became really good friends. The dude listened to my music and said "this is good enough to get a deal. Here are some contacts from melodic rock labels all through Europe." I decided to send my material to the 5 labels and to my surprise, all 5 of them were interested in signing a deal with me based on 7 songs!

When I finally weeded out who was offering what, this Indy label in England offered me a deal I just couldn't refuse. I elected not to re-up with Sony, and signed with this company in October in 1998, and released my first worldwide CD in 1999. I got an incredible advance, paid off my house, my parents bills and toured quite a bit. I als landed a licensing deal in Japan with the label I am now signed to over there so this really helped things out. Another advance, more touring and the next thing you know, I was signed with bands on my label like TNT, Jake E Lee, Enuff Znuff, and in the same limelight as Dokken, Giant, Winger, Danger Danger and many others.

I didn't have any type of business plan other than pushing myself to the right people. This of course paved the way to where I am today....broke and living in the streets talking to you from a busted up internet cafe. LOL!! Just kidding! Hahahaha! It opened many new doors for me and I've met some awesome people that I've networked with.

Indy labels I master for, studios, artists I produce for, jingles, video game music, and of course, my own career which will see a new cd shortly. It's not been easy, and I since left the original label I was signed with, signed with another and left them as well. But for the most part I have always taken the initiative to work inside the labels for myself to take some of the burden off of them.

It's pretty cool to get that power from them and have the trust to be allowed to make some of the calls. Now days I pretty much do everything myself for the most part. I handle all my publishing, distribution, stores etc. Once you get your in on that stuff, you can pretty much handle it all on your own. But it's very tedious and is also a job that can run you into the ground.

On my first album (which is currently being re-recorded because it was a bit rushed, unfinished and the recording quality was pretty bad, yet most people could sense the passion and good performance in it) I played every instrument, wrote 98% of the songs, lyrics and arrangements, mixed, mastered....it was just too much for one man. Then again, when you are cluless about that stuff like I was, it makes it even harder.

The next album released in 2004 did even better than the first one and I had other musicians involved on it. I still wrote every song, but the other guys were just as important as I was in making the album sound 100% better than the first one.

So, presently, I'm working on some new stuff and I may be on my own once again as my band guys are busy with their own careers and will probably only tour with me when it comes time. I'm actually looking forward to doing the new stuff on my own because of how far I've come and how much I've learned since doing the first one in the late 90's. It's amazing how much you can learn in 10 years time I tell ya.

As far as promotion goes, the internet was my best promotion. Taking part on message boards, helping kids, helping adults and just being accessable. Most people with record deals sort of hang in the back and don't get involved either because they claim they don't have the time, or they don't like to be put on the spot. I've never really appreciated that from artists and felt it was a bit snobbish of them to be that way since without the fans, they are nothing.

So I've put myself out here, have gotten into heated disputes, have made great friends, some mortal enemies but I feel I've made an impact in a good way on quite a few peoples lives as they have mine through the years. I'm as busy as a movie star...but there is always time between traveling to reach out to people.

I think it's important to maintain contact and act like a human being instead of a pompous star. It takes 10 seconds to thank someone through email for their support and friendship...it's awesome to hang out on forums and take part with everyone, especially the younger folks. The reason being...they are the future.

No one helped me when I asked for help. I wound up wasting lots of time finding out things for myself. From gear, playing styles, general questions, business questions...you name it, I was pushed away. I made up my mind that if I was ever in a good place to where people would respect my opinion and I could help them based on what I've been through, that I would do everything in my power to do so and have lived up to my word.

I think the more good you try to put into the world, the more good you get back. Sure, there are bumps in the road no matter what, but it's always important to know who you are, where you came from and what you are about while you give what you can to those in need in a language they can understand.

At the end of the day, we're all in this world together. There are no secrets and there shouldn't be. I say we make the best of it because there will always be more strength in numbers. (Sorry TonyB, I did it again with another long post! Couldn't see how this one would be small though! LOL!!)

[Joe-Martinez]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

I'm a bit late in answering this thread, but I had some pretty cool info to share, so I figured I'd comment here. I've been surviving off of music full time since 1999. I remember before that time, I was working in a family business, my original stuff and playing in a Van Halen tribute band from 1994 until 1997.

The family business I had crashed hard in 1996 and went into chapter 11 and forced my family into bankruptcy. House was up for Sheriff sale, I had nowhere to go and was looking for work. I found a job at my public library and told them I would work as their handy-man for free internet. LOL!

This worked out quite nicely as I was able to build a little website and post up some material in hopes of shopping a deal. At the time, I was with Taxi from 1996 until 1999...and let me tell you guys that have asked about it, it's a waste of time and money. Michael Laskow and his band of "formerlys" are just that....formerly fired from real labels that have no power to do anything with your music. I submitted about 50 songs in my 3 years with that company and only one got an option to be featured on a compilation CD. I declined.

Anyway, back to the library. I was introduced by one of the librarians, to a guy that was heavily connected with Sony. The guy was more famous than I had known at the time....he wrote the music for the movie "Rock around the clock" and loved my stuff. I got a developmental deal with Sony (also know as a spec deal) which never materialized into anything because it wasn't my time stylistically....actually, I was too late to the 80's rock party but they felt there might be a second coming, so they held on to me.

In the meantime, the advance I received from the label was fairly generous. Nothing huge, but enough to where I made a call to a Sheriff friend I knew that put a freeze on selling my house for me when I presented him with a few bucks. I then met a friend that had created a website for a band called Heavens Edge and we became really good friends. The dude listened to my music and said "this is good enough to get a deal. Here are some contacts from melodic rock labels all through Europe." I decided to send my material to the 5 labels and to my surprise, all 5 of them were interested in signing a deal with me based on 7 songs!

When I finally weeded out who was offering what, this Indy label in England offered me a deal I just couldn't refuse. I elected not to re-up with Sony, and signed with this company in October in 1998, and released my first worldwide CD in 1999. I got an incredible advance, paid off my house, my parents bills and toured quite a bit. I als landed a licensing deal in Japan with the label I am now signed to over there so this really helped things out. Another advance, more touring and the next thing you know, I was signed with bands on my label like TNT, Jake E Lee, Enuff Znuff, and in the same limelight as Dokken, Giant, Winger, Danger Danger and many others.

I didn't have any type of business plan other than pushing myself to the right people. This of course paved the way to where I am today....broke and living in the streets talking to you from a busted up internet cafe. LOL!! Just kidding! Hahahaha! It opened many new doors for me and I've met some awesome people that I've networked with.

Indy labels I master for, studios, artists I produce for, jingles, video game music, and of course, my own career which will see a new cd shortly. It's not been easy, and I since left the original label I was signed with, signed with another and left them as well. But for the most part I have always taken the initiative to work inside the labels for myself to take some of the burden off of them.

It's pretty cool to get that power from them and have the trust to be allowed to make some of the calls. Now days I pretty much do everything myself for the most part. I handle all my publishing, distribution, stores etc. Once you get your in on that stuff, you can pretty much handle it all on your own. But it's very tedious and is also a job that can run you into the ground.

On my first album (which is currently being re-recorded because it was a bit rushed, unfinished and the recording quality was pretty bad, yet most people could sense the passion and good performance in it) I played every instrument, wrote 98% of the songs, lyrics and arrangements, mixed, mastered....it was just too much for one man. Then again, when you are cluless about that stuff like I was, it makes it even harder.

The next album released in 2004 did even better than the first one and I had other musicians involved on it. I still wrote every song, but the other guys were just as important as I was in making the album sound 100% better than the first one.

So, presently, I'm working on some new stuff and I may be on my own once again as my band guys are busy with their own careers and will probably only tour with me when it comes time. I'm actually looking forward to doing the new stuff on my own because of how far I've come and how much I've learned since doing the first one in the late 90's. It's amazing how much you can learn in 10 years time I tell ya.

As far as promotion goes, the internet was my best promotion. Taking part on message boards, helping kids, helping adults and just being accessable. Most people with record deals sort of hang in the back and don't get involved either because they claim they don't have the time, or they don't like to be put on the spot. I've never really appreciated that from artists and felt it was a bit snobbish of them to be that way since without the fans, they are nothing.

So I've put myself out here, have gotten into heated disputes, have made great friends, some mortal enemies but I feel I've made an impact in a good way on quite a few peoples lives as they have mine through the years. I'm as busy as a movie star...but there is always time between traveling to reach out to people.

I think it's important to maintain contact and act like a human being instead of a pompous star. It takes 10 seconds to thank someone through email for their support and friendship...it's awesome to hang out on forums and take part with everyone, especially the younger folks. The reason being...they are the future.

No one helped me when I asked for help. I wound up wasting lots of time finding out things for myself. From gear, playing styles, general questions, business questions...you name it, I was pushed away. I made up my mind that if I was ever in a good place to where people would respect my opinion and I could help them based on what I've been through, that I would do everything in my power to do so and have lived up to my word.

I think the more good you try to put into the world, the more good you get back. Sure, there are bumps in the road no matter what, but it's always important to know who you are, where you came from and what you are about while you give what you can to those in need in a language they can understand.

At the end of the day, we're all in this world together. There are no secrets and there shouldn't be. I say we make the best of it because there will always be more strength in numbers. (Sorry TonyB, I did it again with another long post! Couldn't see how this one would be small though! LOL!!)

What a truly great post!

Best of luck with your music and keep on doing what you do.

[garageband]

Danny, I actually read that one all the way through (working on my personal discipline). That is a great story. I appreciate your sharing it.

True dat about TAXI.

[jagcmos]

Originally Posted by Danny Danzi

No one helped me when I asked for help. I wound up wasting lots of time finding out things for myself. From gear, playing styles, general questions, business questions...you name it, I was pushed away. I made up my mind that if I was ever in a good place to where people would respect my opinion and I could help them based on what I've been through, that I would do everything in my power to do so and have lived up to my word.

Great post and attitude Danny.

I have a small project studio where I record demos for local musicians for free.
When they ask me why I don't charge, and they always do, I tell them that someday when I have a need,
maybe they could stop by and lay down a track for another musician and help them out.

That and I suck at it and feel it would be a travesty to charge them

[Danny Danzi]

Originally Posted by Joe-Martinez

What a truly great post!

Best of luck with your music and keep on doing what you do.

Thanks very much Joe...and luck to you as well.

Originally Posted by garageband

Danny, I actually read that one all the way through (working on my personal discipline). That is a great story. I appreciate your sharing it.

True dat about TAXI.

Thanks garage, I knew I'd win you over eventually with at least one long novel! Yeah, shame about Taxi to be honest because they really pitch a good ballgame and it's easy to buy into. What got to me the most about that was I submitted all these cool tunes and only one bite. Leave them and send to real labels and they were interested? I just couldn't get over that. I mean, I'll be very honest with you. I know in my heart that I've not done anything ground-breaking or innovative...I play several instruments but am not very proficient on any of them and I never liked my voice or thought my material really had what it took to get a deal.

As a matter of fact on every cover letter I have ever sent to a label, I told them to put me in a band as a collaborator lead/rhythm guitarist and didn't care about being "The Danny Danzi solo project" or anything like that. I just wanted to be a team player and enjoy the ride. But, it didn't go that way so sometimes you just embrace what you have. But my point with the Taxi thing, here I am sending material to ads they had saying "looking for 80's material, melodic rock, guitar instrumental with an 80's vibe, movie score music with 80's flavor" etc etc.

I'm nothing special but I do sincerely believe I do that style well and was just astonished that no one liked my material. It actually hurt and somewhat made me think about throwing in the towel to be honest. So yeah, total scam that place man. Thanks for reply and for reading my lil book here.

Originally Posted by jagcmos

Great post and attitude Danny.

I have a small project studio where I record demos for local musicians for free.
When they ask me why I don't charge, and they always do, I tell them that someday when I have a need,
maybe they could stop by and lay down a track for another musician and help them out.

That and I suck at it and feel it would be a travesty to charge them

Thanks jag, I appreciate the kind words. You too have an awesome attitude and I salute you for what you're doing. Just remember....this world is a different world. It seems the more we try to be nice to *some* people, the more they take advantage of us. I remember giving out a bunch of Sonar videos showing tips and tricks to a few places and it came back to bite me as those I tried to help learned from the videos and talked behind my back after like I didn't even matter. I never asked for anything from anyone other than a thank you and hopefully a good recording with the info I've provided.

There just comes a time when YOUR time and effort are worth a little something even if you don't charge much man....especially in economic times like these. It's just principal really, but it tends to keep people a bit more in line and you stay respected. You also have to figure it this way....if they never heard of you, they'd only go somewhere else and get ripped off. You don't need to rip them off but it's also nice to receive a little something back for your hard work even if it's nothing that will pay any major bills, ya know?

Be "The Best Damned Discount Studio" in your area, but charge a little something. You never know when your generosity brings in a band and your gear breaks down. Whether they are at fault or not, it may stop you from enjoying your studio depending on what happens to break down. Sure is nice to have a few bucks to get things fixed asap, ya know? Just a little something...put it in a kitty and watch it grow slowly. At least it's there for an emergency or for something you need. You'll still be a good guy for giving great service at a super affordable rate. Best of luck to you!