Free Music Hosting - Scary Agreements

[DT Chris]

So you want to host your music on one of the free band-hosting sites. Why would any musician want to do this (assuming they may write some really good music), when the fine print forces you to agree to this when you sign up;

From a leading site, one of many with similar agreements;

By posting Content on PureVolume (including, without limitation, blogs, master recordings, artwork, photographs and tour dates) you warrant and represent that you own the Content posted by you or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and that such Content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyright rights or other intellectual property rights of ant third party. You agree to pay for all royalties and fees owing to any person by reason of any Content you post on PureVolume.

With respect to any Content posted by or in connection with the Products and Services, you hereby grant Unborn Media a world-wide, royalty free, irrevocable, perpetual license, alone or together or as part of other information, Content and/or material of any kind or nature;

- to use, copy, modify, publish, edit, translate, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, and otherwise exploit such Content (specifically including through streaming, podcasting, online/broadcast and satellite radio, suggested playlists and User playlists, but specifically excluding through phonograph records),

- to publish and promote such Content in connection with the particular Products and Services (including, without limitation, for advertising and promotional purposes),

- to publish and promote such Content elsewhere within PureVolume or any other Unborn Media website through links to PureVolume, and

- to sublicense such rights through multiple tiers of sublicenses, all without any obligation to you, whether by way of compensation, attribution or otherwise.

Such license shall apply with respect to any form, media, or technology now known or hereafter developed.

I don't think musicians and artists realize just how powerful this agreement is. I have to wonder why anyone would post any content on any site with an agreement like this.

This keeps me from using these sites. I'd rather post music on my own site, if need be, rather than risking a future 'hit' being freely used without any compensation or even credit to me...

What do you all think about this? Is it worth promoting your band or music at this expense?

[brandondrury]

This is an interesting topic.

There was an article in a recent EQ magazine that shed some light on the topic. The wording to a person who can't speak the legal jargon does sound pretty damn scary, but in the end you really aren't selling your soul away from some free hosting.

Again, I'm no lawyer and if you are really interested in this, a person should delve much deeper. Having said that, the vibe I got from the EQ article (written by some entertainment lawyer) was that we are all free and clear.

I don't understand it either way, do not pretend to, and do not want to waste a second of my life thinking about it. There is nothing wrong with being informed and a little educated on the subject of legal stuff in music, but I prefer not to spend too much time playing defense.

Brandon

[richiebee]

Firstly, you're not giving away exclusive rights, or indeed any rights to your music. You're just giving away rights to a crappy 96k MP3 recording.

[AfaraWayland]

I have a soundclick account, and when I signed up for it,, I had to approve similar language. I have a limited background in the legal stuff, so here'e my interpretation. When in doubt, always seek bonified legal consultation.

Originally Posted by DT Chris

With respect to any Content posted by or in connection with the Products and Services, you hereby grant Unborn Media a world-wide, royalty free, irrevocable, perpetual license, alone or together or as part of other information, Content and/or material of any kind or nature;

In respect to anything you post here, be it music, art, graphics, language or other, you hereby grant ____ (a non-exclusive) an un-ending (up to the point your material is removed from ___ servers,) license to distribute uploaded material, whether in part (an uploaded entity within uploaded entities, or part of an uploaded entity) or in whole, as a single item, or item connected with/included with another group of entities, with an agreement for no collectable royalties or fees payable to uploader of the said material.

[This means you grant permission for ___ to distribute said material anywhere on the internet, within the constraints of the ___ courses of business and advertising, and they are not compelled to pay you anything for the service of distributing it how they deem fit (in accordance with Products and Services agreement) worldwide, on the Internet.]

- to use, copy, modify, publish, edit, translate, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, and otherwise exploit such Content (specifically including through streaming, podcasting, online/broadcast and satellite radio, suggested playlists and User playlists, but specifically excluding through phonograph records),

You give them the right to distribute on the Internet, which encompasses all of the descriptive words above. These fall under requirements of current US copyright law. By agreeing to this you allow them to play your music on the Internet, whether it be a web stream, or even a digital broadcast via satellite. The terms Modify, Edit and Translate are scary words, but may only have to due with the implementation of the material on there servers, and how it appears on certain websites/pages/playlists, rather than a direct modification of the sound, graphics, or language of the actual material posted. Check your user agreement to be sure.

*Note that the license does not give permission to transfix the material in records or CD's, and perhaps print applications, or any other tangible medium of expression other than it's existence on their hard drives/servers.

- to publish and promote such Content in connection with the particular Products and Services (including, without limitation, for advertising and promotional purposes),

They can use you uploaded material to draw advertisers, viewers, or anyone else to their site. They could not put your material, (songs, graphics, language, etc...) without this consent. Check your P and S agreement, but I'm pretty sure that they are not going to use your material to promote business unrelated to their website. In otherwords, they won't involve your content with say a political blog.

- to publish and promote such Content elsewhere within PureVolume or any other Unborn Media website through links to PureVolume, and

etc...more of the same, blah,blah, blah. Note that here it says within PureVolumn or Unborn Media websites.

- to sublicense such rights through multiple tiers of sublicenses, all without any obligation to you, whether by way of compensation, attribution or otherwise.

This is required since each facet of their application, namely, publishing your content on their site, requires interaction with other entities, materials, uploaders, etc, which in turn require proper authorization. Meaning, every possible view/page must be authorized, every implementation of on screen advertising, every association between advertising, the site, and your content, every agreement they institute with advertisers, every agreement with other content providers...etc.. etc...
They don't have to ask you every time a page refreshes, nor credit you every possible time your material appears.

Such license shall apply with respect to any form, media, or technology now known or hereafter developed.

I don't think musicians and artists realize just how powerful this agreement is. I have to wonder why anyone would post any content on any site with an agreement like this.

This keeps me from using these sites. I'd rather post music on my own site, if need be, rather than risking a future 'hit' being freely used without any compensation or even credit to me...

What do you all think about this? Is it worth promoting your band or music at this expense?

You are right that it is a powerful relinquishment of your intellectual property.

And, I agree, the best way to control your interests is to host your own server and website.

However, neither the knowledge, nor the practical application of running that most beneficial of situations are easily done by John Q Guitar Hero.

If you can afford your own hosting, you have to factor in that these sites will receive a much higher volumn of traffic than anything you can do on your own, for the simple fact that they have a larger range of promotion for their site, and advertisers to fund those exploits to boot.

Having your own site might protect your content more, in a vapor, but the price you would pay in promotion would definitely outweigh that benefit.

In terms of competition, you'd probably want to be on an even playing ground.

I submit that it would be best to involve your band in both.

[brandondrury]

Okay. It sounds to me like you are simply giving soundclick or whatever permission to do what you already expect them to do.

Brandon

[AfaraWayland]

yeah,

but just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...

[DT Chris]

For this reason, I wouldn't trust any of these services enough to put any songs I actually might think would be good. I don't want to hear my song on some commercial in Korea, with absolutely no recourse to stop it.

Though simply just posting it on the site, shows some measure of copyright, the problem is you sign away all your rights to the hoster, so still no good.

[AfaraWayland]

Well,

they wouldn't be able to use your posted material in a commercial in Korea, say TV, print, or radio, but they would be able to show your content on their website/their web promotions on a computer located in Korea.

You are NOT signing away your rights, as you put it, just licensing/permissioning a non-exclusive representation of your content. This in no way effects your rights/your ownership of your content.

It is simply a mutual agreement for them to use your posted material in exchange for promotion and exposure. Its a fair trade.

there are no free lunches, even in the ill-desired socialist republic some desire our country to become...

---

A word on copyright law.

DT Chris brought up "some measure of copyright."

I have a feeling that many on you do not fully understand the concept/applicable laws concerning US copyright.

Here's a quick and limited primer:

Rule #1- A 'Poor Man's Copyright' will not hold up in court.

US law defines that the creator of a work/composition obtains a "copyright," of their work the first instance that work is transfixed in a tangible medium of expression. This could be paper, CD, even a hard drive, etc... We could call this a standard copyright, or basic copyright in intellectual property.

Once a creation is transfixed in a medium, the owner enjoys all rights associated with copyright, meaning they "own," it, or own the intellectual property value.

When it is transfixed, a copyright owner can sue any person that "infringes," on the rights listed in the US Copyright Law that apply to all created and transfixed original works. There are currently 6 classifications of a copyright owner's rights concerning intellectual property.

Copyright infringement recourse:

All standard copyright owners can pursue infringements up to but not exceeding these legal domains:

- a cease and desist order
- a destruction of illicit copies/material order

thats it. no damages/money.

US law also states, that if an original work is REGISTERED with the US Copyright Office, one can pursue the basic avenues of recourse, but also seek monetary compensation for damages sustained due to an infringement.

So, any lawyer will tell you, REGISTER your works.

***this is a severely limited picture of copyright law***

If you all are interested in discussing copyright further, perhaps we should start a new thread. I'm not a lawyer, but I have had some training in this field.

[DT Chris]

Originally Posted by AfaraWayland

Rule #1- A 'Poor Man's Copyright' will not hold up in court.

That may be true, but it's better than nothing. Supported with witnesses who can attest you wrote/recorded/performed said song on a particular date, along with supporting evidence (demo tapes, 'beta' sessions, recordings, napkins scribbled with lyrics, etc) can still go a long way to showing you're the original owner.

The only reason most of us don't copyright our songs is because in most cases it's probably a waste and time of money. Do I really think that song I wrote is good enough to even have to worry about someone stealing it? How the hell do you know?

Continuing on with the original topic;

How's this little sample from www.mp3.com, another big host of band music, except you don't have a choice if people can download your song or not;

You hereby grant us, our affiliates, and our partners a worldwide, irrevocable, royalty-free, nonexclusive, sublicensable license to use, reproduce, create derivative works of, distribute, publicly perform, publicly display, transfer, transmit, distribute, and publish Your Content and subsequent versions of Your Content for the purposes of (i) displaying Your Content on our sites, (ii) distributing Your Content, either electronically or via other media, to users seeking to download or otherwise acquire it, and/or (iii) storing Your Content in a remote database accessible by end users, for a charge. This license shall apply to the distribution and the storage of Your Content in any form, medium, or technology now known or later developed.

These statements make me immediately cancel the sign up. I'd like to share my music with people, and have somewhere for my friends to go to check out stuff, but I don't want to give my music rights away to someone just to do it.

MP3 can charge people and basically make money from your song, anywhere in the world, through their site or any other media. So there is no way really to stop them from putting your song on a compilation CD and selling to peeps in Seoul, Korea if they wanted.

Might as well sign away your rights to your song by clicking that "Sign Up" button.

If I ever use these services, and it's a big if, I'll only be uploading 'sample' mp3s and not the full version. Perhaps I'll allow full listens/downloads on my home site instead.

[brandondrury]

That may be true, but it's better than nothing. Supported with witnesses who can attest you wrote/recorded/performed said song on a particular date, along with supporting evidence (demo tapes, 'beta' sessions, recordings, napkins scribbled with lyrics, etc) can still go a long way to showing you're the original owner.

It just hit me that if someone else made the money off one of your songs, you automatically lose. At least in America.

I'm not sure if everyone knows this, but the legal system is like one of those hammer smash contests at the fair where if you smash it hard enough you ring a bell. Of course, instead of smashing power, it's $$$. That's it.

I couldn't imagine a person with less money winning a case.

There is one hope. If the guy that stole your song blew the $2 million on X new drug than he may indeed have less money than you and you may have a chance of winning. Of course, if he has less money than you, what's the point in sueing?

Brandon