Cubase LE 4 Audio mixdown

[Waffleness]

Originally Posted by andygee70

I understand that (and thank you for your input ) but my point initially regarded the major problems I was having with the .WAV mixdown (which is the general point being made in the thread). The Cubase mix in the console sounds great - then to .WAV mixdown it sounds quieter, less vibrant and less dynamic. So having tried one quick fix option (lowering the stereo output channel to just below 0db and then normalising the whole recording to 0db) didn't solve my audio problem AND to top it all off I had the hi hat making a weird 'phasing' sound in the mixdown that wasn't there in the Cubase original mix.

I just think that a reasonable WMA mixdown is preferable to a bad .WAV one if it corrects an issue in the short term. Obviously the idea is to attempt a proper fix so that the .WAV mixdown sounds like the original Cubase mix.

Read a bit on here and it seems as though it's a compression and limiter problem (I've joined the many others with this problem). So until i understand more about compressing and limiting, that's the best I can come up with for now.

However, any advice offered to a complete newbie will be gratefully received

On the output channel for the main Left and Right, I normally have a Limiter and sometimes a compressor. I normally mix the whole thing so its peaking at about -5dB on the meters, and then adjust the input gain on the limiter to give the required level. You can judge how much input gain to give it from the amount of gain reduction the limiter applies.

Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but your not mixing down in mono are you? That would definately fit all the descriptions you have mentioned. I doubt thats the problem though.

I would work on fixing the .wav mix. Maybe post a screenshot of the mixdown options window, so we can see the settings you have used?

[andygee70]

Originally Posted by Waffleness

On the output channel for the main Left and Right, I normally have a Limiter and sometimes a compressor. I normally mix the whole thing so its peaking at about -5dB on the meters, and then adjust the input gain on the limiter to give the required level. You can judge how much input gain to give it from the amount of gain reduction the limiter applies.

Sorry if this is a silly suggestion, but your not mixing down in mono are you? That would definately fit all the descriptions you have mentioned. I doubt thats the problem though.

I would work on fixing the .wav mix. Maybe post a screenshot of the mixdown options window, so we can see the settings you have used?

Thanks for your reply.

Output definately in Stereo (Audio Output in the mixdown options drop down) .WAV & 24-Bit. It's pretty frustrating - because it sounds decent when listening to it in the Mixing console.

So, the limiter and compressor features are there to 'even out' the sound?

[Waffleness]

Originally Posted by andygee70

Thanks for your reply.

Output definately in Stereo (Audio Output in the mixdown options drop down) .WAV & 24-Bit. It's pretty frustrating - because it sounds decent when listening to it in the Mixing console.

So, the limiter and compressor features are there to 'even out' the sound?

Yeah, thats basically right You dont want your mixes to get above 0dB, because then you'll get clipping and distortion. The limiter basically takes the mix right up to 0dB without letting it go over. This makes the whole thing louder on average. You dont want to over do it though, because you ruin the dynamics if you over limit the audio.

If your mix sounds good in cubase, then the problem is definately in the mixdown and playback stage. Are you using a different sound device to play the mixed down wav file? Try mixing down in 16 bit.

[sparqee]

Right. If you want to have maximum compatibility with multiple playback engines you should be mixing down to CD quality which is 16bit, 44.1k sample rate.

Once your export is finished bring that new wav file back into cubase as a stereo track. When played back it should sound exactly the way your project does before mix down. If not then you should take a look at your export settings to make sure your Audio Engine Output settings are configured to use the same interface output as the one you're listening through as you mix.

[captainL]

Have you tried AIFF or AIFC. does anyone actually use these formats. I tried them and they where both the same size as a wav file. Is there any benefit to these? Or is it just the encoding details: title album artist...that crap.

[sparqee]

Aiff is a Mac format. It's basically the Mac version of WAV. It predates WAV but wav became more commonly used (for no particular reason that I'm aware of). Unlike the WAV format Aiff also has a compression extension which is what Aifc is. Not too commonly used though.

If you work in the movie/media industry you'll commonly encounter all-Mac shops that use aiff but final production renders always go out as WAV or some compressed format depending on the delivery medium (e.g. AAC, etc.).

[Waffleness]

Originally Posted by captainL

Have you tried AIFF or AIFC. does anyone actually use these formats. I tried them and they where both the same size as a wav file. Is there any benefit to these? Or is it just the encoding details: title album artist...that crap.

AIFF's are another type of uncompressed audio file. I always think of them as an apple mac version of a wav file.

You can assign album artist, title, etc to a .wav file. Its not specifically for mp3's and encoded file formats.

[andygee70]

Right chaps - i think I've nailed the problem..

Ahem...

I mixed down in .WAV format - and like it was suggested imported the said .WAV file back into Cubase then solo'd the WAV and noticed....erm

That the output channel volume for the .WAV file was at half the level as the main mixer stereo output

So I set the volume for both the .WAV audio and Cubase mix to the same sort of level and alternated between the two - and there was no noticeable difference to either audio, so problem solved

I apologise profusely for being a numpty

Right, next question!

The compressor from the VST dynamics insert - I've had a look at the settings - what the hell do they do and more importantly, what are the settings one should aim for in respect to compressing say the drums?

[captainL]

Originally Posted by andygee70

The compressor from the VST dynamics insert - I've had a look at the settings - what the hell do they do and more importantly, what are the settings one should aim for in respect to compressing say the drums?

I am a beginner but I will try to explain it...at least how I kind of understand it.

compression takes sound that is above a specified level (THRESHOLD) and reduces it by a specified amount (RATIO). So if you set a threshold to -10 Db and a ratio to 2:1, all noise that is above -10 Db will be reduced by half (of the exceeded amount??) So if you have a spike up to -6 Db it will be reduced to -8 Db. Now that the loud parts are quieted down, you can use the GAIN to increase everything, lets say you set the gain to 2. Now the quiet sounds are going to be raised by 2 Db and so is the part we just compressed so... (-6Db compressed to -8Db) and then (+ 2 gain) raised back to -6. So what you have in essence is the quiter parts raised 2 decibals while the loud part is still the same at --6 Db.

ATTACK and RELEASE is a little more tricky for begginers, at least me. Attack is how long the Db has to be over the threshold before it starts compressing it. A long attack would allow for an initial loud peak to get through before it started reducing.

Release is how long untill it releases the compression once the noise falls below the threshold.

Play around with these. Most of the time I find I have a very short (fast) attack and release. I think it takes a little bit of training to be able to listen to the sound and adjust these as necessary.

Limiter - iis just that. Once I have a final mix, I will put a limit on the main bus of 0. This allows nothing over 0 to get through. In LE 4 put it on the main bus in one of the last two inserts (because these are applied after everything else IE eq, fx). Then you can raise the master fader to where you want it without worrying about clipping. However the sound is degraded.


Anyhow, that is how I would explain compressor settings. Sorry for any wrong terminology, explanations, or errors.

[andygee70]

Originally Posted by captainL

I am a beginner but I will try to explain it...at least how I kind of understand it.

compression takes sound that is above a specified level (THRESHOLD) and reduces it by a specified amount (RATIO). So if you set a threshold to -10 Db and a ratio to 2:1, all noise that is above -10 Db will be reduced by half (of the exceeded amount??) So if you have a spike up to -6 Db it will be reduced to -8 Db. Now that the loud parts are quieted down, you can use the GAIN to increase everything, lets say you set the gain to 2. Now the quiet sounds are going to be raised by 2 Db and so is the part we just compressed so... (-6Db compressed to -8Db) and then (+ 2 gain) raised back to -6. So what you have in essence is the quiter parts raised 2 decibals while the loud part is still the same at --6 Db.

ATTACK and RELEASE is a little more tricky for begginers, at least me. Attack is how long the Db has to be over the threshold before it starts compressing it. A long attack would allow for an initial loud peak to get through before it started reducing.

Release is how long untill it releases the compression once the noise falls below the threshold.

Play around with these. Most of the time I find I have a very short (fast) attack and release. I think it takes a little bit of training to be able to listen to the sound and adjust these as necessary.

Limiter - iis just that. Once I have a final mix, I will put a limit on the main bus of 0. This allows nothing over 0 to get through. In LE 4 put it on the main bus in one of the last two inserts (because these are applied after everything else IE eq, fx). Then you can raise the master fader to where you want it without worrying about clipping. However the sound is degraded.


Anyhow, that is how I would explain compressor settings. Sorry for any wrong terminology, explanations, or errors.

Thanks for the explanation - will give it a go