Recording Bass guitar.

[sammerbass]

My band, Within Nothing' are in our studeo now working on our demo. We are doing all of the recording and mixing ourselves with some help from a freind who has little experience.

So far we have the drum tracks finished and that's it. What a pain in the ass that was. Anyway, in a few days I will be recording my bass tracks and I am planning on using a few different signals.

1. Bass rig(ampeg svt classic tube preamp, ampeg pro1600 p.a.and a mixture of different ampeg cabs, all 10's) miced with an AKG D112.

2. Ampeg vacuum tube Direct Injection.

Warwick thumbNT 5

Does anyone have and tips that may help me out. I want the recording to be as natural as possible, no effects or any of that. Maybe a little tube compression and that's it.

Thanks.

[brandondrury]

Maybe a little tube compression and that's it.

So you are 100% against solid state compression? If so, could you explain why?

(I don't mean to be a dick. There is a lot of marketing crap out there that does nothing but confuse people. Most of the greatest compressors in the world are solid state design and cost more than your car probably did. So don't get to hung up on the type of technology. Focus more on using it properly. )

I almost always smash the bass pretty hard with compression. The bass may sound fine when solo'd, but in order to get it to sit in the mix, it usually needs to be hammered pretty good. Of course, no bass player has ever noticed me doing this that I'm aware of.

I've recorded about 100 albums. (I'm slowing down on quantity now that I've gotten into producing). I've tried all sorts of multiamp tricks. I've found that for me, simple is better. I've had 3 bass amps and a DI on bass. I've had 4guitar amps going.

Personally, for guitar, I'm using one Royer R121 my Marshall cabinet with usually the guitar head on 10. By maxing out one amp and getting it right, I find that I can quickly get a great guitar sound. I never had much luck blending mediocre tones together. My facility will not support 4 cranked amps, so I'm pretty much stuck.

I find that most bass players have no concept of tone. If you do, that's great. What character are you going for with each amp? Most importantly, what kind room are you recording these in? Is it big? If the room is really small, you will probably have a very boxy tone.

My best bass sounds have came from recording the bass players I can find through a Creative Labs Redeemer through, through a Sansamp DI, through a MXR EQ straight into either my Trident S20 or my Vintech 1272.

By taking the time to get exactly what I want before I track, I end up with one great track (on a good day). Just make sure that each signal sounds great and compliments the other tracks if you are going to use a complicated rig.

Be very careful of phase issues with multiple mics and DIs.

Brandon

[sammerbass]

Thanks for the advice. Nothing against solid state comp., but tube is what I already have so I'm gonna try to make that one work. Hopefully I won't need to squash it too much. The pickups in my bass are very balanced to begin with, each note rings the same on all 5strings and 26 fretts. Plus, I like to think that I have a built in compressor on all 5 fingers of my right hand. b.s.

I've never been happy with the tone I got from the sansamp di, and that's why I'm using the ampeg DI, just the straight tone from my bass with a little tube saturation.

Have you used a d112 for micing bass cabs, if yes what kind of results did you get? The room is a 12x12 with 10ft ceilings and extra padding to knock off some of the resonation from the room.

Btw. The tone I am going for is, flat highs, strong upper and lower mids, and moderated lows, nothing too boomy.

[brandondrury]

Btw. The tone I am going for is, flat highs, strong upper and lower mids, and moderated lows, nothing too boomy

Wow! You instincts are right on. You may even sound good. This is generally the tone I strive for unless the project calls for something dramatically different.

Have you used a d112 for micing bass cabs, if yes what kind of results did you get? The room is a 12x12 with 10ft ceilings and extra padding to knock off some of the resonation from the room.

I've used the D112 a few times. I've used condenser mics ranging from $100-2500. I used dynamic mics like Shure SM57 and Sennheiser 421. I've tried ribbon mics like my Royer R121.

With all these tools at my disposal, I have found the sound of the DI 10000% more pleasing. The mic'd cabs will always sound boxy in a boxy room. That's how it works. I guarantee you that your room sounds boxy as well. It's too small. It's a probably that I've learned to work around.

If I were you, I would at least start with a DI and get that to sound as close as you possibly can to what you are going for. Then add the amps in slowly. Use the DI as the main signal though or you will have problems. I'll bet money on it.

I've never been happy with the tone I got from the sansamp di, and that's why I'm using the ampeg DI, just the straight tone from my bass with a little tube saturation.

How much recording have you done with the Sansamp? It took me a little while to learn to back off the low end a little bit. Of course, most of the time I was unhappy with it, I was dealing with crappy bass players too.

The pickups in my bass are very balanced to begin with, each note rings the same on all 5strings and 26 fretts. Plus, I like to think that I have a built in compressor on all 5 fingers of my right hand.

Well, you have the right attitude. If you are not a kick ass bass player now, you might end up being one eventually. Yes, you have total control over your hands. A balanced bass helps a lot too. However, you are not going to get by in rock music without at least a medium amount of compression. It's the nature of the modern beast. Everything is modern music is compressed all to hell. That's the sound the kids want.

There is still room for dynamics in classical and jazz, but anything "modern" is mega hammered with compression.

Brandon

[sammerbass]

Ok, the first two songs are finished, with NO COMPRESSION on the bass. hehe

[brandondrury]

I'm glad to hear that you got them done.

I hope your decision to use no compression on bass was based on what sounded better to your ears and not on some concept that seamed smarter to your brain. This is a BIG problem for newbies to recording. The brain is useless when mixing.

I always compress bass. I may not for a classical recording of some kind, but I always have to for a rock mix. Everything is compressed in a rock mix.

Anyway, post these in Bash This Song or Bash This Mix. I'd like to hear them.

Brandon

[jhanse]

I'm a bass player myself and I like to squash the bass line with compression, because I find that it sits better in the mix. Or should I say that I can work with it better. If the track is fully compressed I can imagine it as a straight line and it's easier to work with these for the rhythm tracks IMO. If I don't compress it can be all over the place

[mrabassist]

A friend and I tried a very interesting thing on a recent recording that we did with bass. I had recently gotten my older mackie board working again but didnt need it. It came time to record bass and we were bored, had plenty of time for the recording, so we started. Through the mixer (the mackie, has 6 aux outputs (we tapped into the 5th and 6th using the alt busses routed back into the mixer)) we sent 6 different signals to the soundcard--all of which for different levels of compression.

My signal went Bass-Sansamp DI

Channel 1 went though THREE CHANNELS of compression, simultaniously (crappy alesis3630's) but none the less.
Channel 2 went through TWO
Channel 3 went through ONE
Channel 4 went to my amp
5 and 6 were two mics placed on the amp (it was on a large staged auditorium AMPEG SVT CL and 810 (again..we were soo bored)) and various micing setups were used for a little bit of depth and natural reverb

we layered it just as you would vocals, panning the heaviest compression dead in the center, splitting channel 2 into two channels inside sonar and panning them mid left and mid right, accordingly, and then mixing the rest of the channels into one, then splitting it once again to do layered panning

i know that sounds complicated, its only cause i typed it quickly

point being---a TON of bassists stray away from compression cause it kills their range and a lot of bassists use too much compression cause they are man enough to admit that, especially when recording, they'd rather be careless and land that fill they love then worry about the pressure in their fingers

also...i guess i should stand by what a lot of people say and, just as a drummer should never mix, nor should a bassist, but i just LOVE the idea of bass being everywhere in the mix. its punchy and loudest in the center, but slight hints of those dynamics you think you are creative with come through all over the place. point being, try it? i dont know

[brandondrury]

That's an interesting test you did there. It's quite elaborate. Usually a good bass player with a good bass through a Sansamp and maybe 6db of fairly slow compression works for me.

Brandon

[mrabassist]

ohh i agree. and definatly no one has the time to do that for every track for every song. i guess its one of those things i can bring up in conversations now, though. I have, however, made it common practice to run one chain of extremely compressed bass in with a straight one (i do most of my tweaking inside sonar, of course) just to have.