VSTi in Cubase

[richiebee]

Program changes are just numbers that MIDI understands as a patch number. In General MIDI land, there are fixed numbers - so Grand Piano is 00, Harpsichord is 06, Trumpet is 56... there are 128 numbers in total. You can get the full list by Googling GM Instrument List. Outside of General MIDI, they just relate to patch numbers on your VSTi. Its a flexible system outside of General MIDI - Patch 00 refers to Patch 00 on your VSTi. Patch 10 refers to Patch 10 on your VSTi. Program Change is in the MIDI specification so practically all MIDI instruments, virtual or otherwise, understand the system.

Most MIDI files that you download will be General MIDI compatible. Most good VSTi's won't be... the specification for General MIDI is not flexible enough to allow most VSTi's to unleash their full power.

[garww]

Don't feel bad. MIDI is programming and not everyone lives in that world. What you are experiencing is not in that programming world, however.

I'm not finish one coffee yet, so I'm still slow. The program change is standard. What is often not standard is how the software works.

Every MIDI programmer/performer has his own MIDI set-up, and the file might be very simple or very complex. On our side, our software should be able to match the programmers setup - GM is an attempt to make that so. But we have Gs, XG, and a host of non-standard MIDI as well.

Even is the file is fully GM compliant, you don't always know if Cubase (or whatever) is giving you everything -usually not a big deal. The VST is a audio processor and often it seems the programming is geared for just the audio performance. They just use the interface provided by Steinberg - but Steinberg has released faulty interfaces.

So on one level, how the app (cubase) handles these messages is one thing. In GM(for example), you can usually make adjustments on how Instrument changes are handled. In one app, I have to delete many of the track performance parameters. But in other apps, I can "IGNORE" a variety of messages to make translation easier.

On the other level, you are using GS and VST. This is not bad in itself, but without MIDI experience you can not see there is something very wrong here.

From my experience, I always have alternate units(software programs) I can test for comparison. Slayer is not known for being very bug free, but I don't actually know about it.

For VST testing, you might install the evaluation Reaper to test against. I find SynthFont pretty quick and dirty for testing playback with VSTi.

You can take a MIDI track and insert a program change at every measure and test how that is interpreted in Cubas to GM, to GS, and to each VSTi. And you can do that with the other types of messages.

[mojo69]

Some great advice there guys- thanks.

Just been reading that I can set program changes in MidiNotate Player (the source of my MIDI files) save the amended file then load it into Cubase.

This is what MidiNotate Player informs you to do to make program changes:


Changing the MIDI Program and Bank of a Track

Typically, a MIDI file that you open in MidiNotate Player adheres to the standard General MIDI (GM) file specification. According to this specification, each of the 128 different MIDI programs (patches) produces a defined instrument sounds. For example, MIDI program #0 is for the "Acousitc Grand Piano" sound.

If you have a MIDI keyboard, an external MIDI sound module, a software synthesizer, or sound font driver, you may want to reassign the MIDI program, and possibly MIDI bank, from the GM program to the MIDI program (and bank) that produces the desired instrument sound on your special device.

NOTE: If the MIDI file includes MIDI program and/or MIDI bank changes in the middle of a track (in the middle of the song), then that information cannot be changed with MidiNotate Player for HitTrax, nor with MidiNotate Musician. You will need MidiNotate Composer to make such change.s

To change the assignment of tracks (staves) to a special device available on your system.

1. Open the MIDI file or MidiNotate .not file.

2. Use the Quick MIDI Device Setup command in the Setup menu to select your special device.

3. Choose the Staff Setup command in the Staff menu. MidiNotate Player will display the Staff Setup window:



4. In the Staff Setup window, enter the MIDI program number, and optionally the MIDI bank number.

If the panel for your device numbers the MIDI programs from 1 to 128, then subtract 1 from them when entering the values in this Staff Setup window.

A MIDI device may have multiple MIDI banks, each which has MIDI programs numbered from 0 to 127. Most MIDI devices receive two "MIDI controller data" events, identified as Ctl0 and Ctl32. MidiNotate Player, like many other MIDI programs, calculates a bank number that is equal to 128 times the Ctrl0 value, plut the Ctl32 value. You can use the Bank Number Calculator in the Staff Setup window to quickly do this calculation; and then manually copy the calculated bank value to the entry for the staff.

5. Click the OK button to save the changes.




What program changes would I need to make to allow my VSTis' to play the sounds?

[mojo69]

You can see a screen shot of the info I referred to in my last post by this link:

http://i42.tinypic.com/kbf9g2.jpg

It may help with regard to my request?

[richiebee]

If cubase is where your sounds come from, do it all in Cubase. You're complicating life by trying to do the program changes in one program then generate the sounds in another. If you want to use Program Changes at all, do them in the program that outputs the final sound. That way, if you decide to change your mind on what VSTi you use, you'll have the process down already.

I think I already said this, but if not... the patch number you use will vary depending on what VSTi you use. If you're using a GM VSTi, then you can use the GM standard patch numbers. If not, then you can't. It really is that simple. When life isn't GM, you have to consult the documentation with your VSTi to find out how the patch numbering for that VSTi works.

And they're all different for a reason. Some have different needs to others.

[mojo69]

This program change stuff is leaving me bedazzled. I've been into list edit in cubase and can't see how i can perform program changes there. Any help on this would be appreciated.

What exactly is system ex? Cubase has 'MIDi filter' which means I can filter out System Ex - will this be of benefit?

I asked advice from 'Midinoteplayer Support' and they responded with:

'many purchased .mid files is that they often have some sort of special "master track" that tells the MIDI Device what instruments to assign to tracks. I'm just wondering if this is the case here, and perhaps that "control" track overrides your settings in Cubase. If that's the case, you'd need to remove the control track from the .mid file, or remove it after importing the .mid file into Cubase.'

Therefore, this 'control track' that they refer to - could this be causing the volume and VSTi problems I'm having? If so - how can I remove this 'control' track?

I feel sure that with the advice I'm getting from you guys all this will eventually click into place and I'll be able to remedy the problems. Thanks.

[garww]

I was thinking yesterday that you might try saving individual tracks, and working on those one at a time.

In any event, this shouldn't be much of a problem. If you can't delete a track, you have serious problems with Cubase.

[mojo69]

I could try that - yes.

I have an idea that this 'master track' or 'control track' in the MIDI files is overiding my VSTis. But I don't know how to edit the thing out.

On the Cubase forum somebody suggested that I 'Put a check next to "Ignore Mastertrack events on Merge". However, that info relates to Cubase SX3.

I've gone into File>Preferences>MIDI File in the Cubase version I'm using but can't fine the "Ignore Mastertrack events on Merge".

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by mojo69

This program change stuff is leaving me bedazzled. I've been into list edit in cubase and can't see how i can perform program changes there. Any help on this would be appreciated.

I'll do you a video when I get home.

What exactly is system ex? Cubase has 'MIDi filter' which means I can filter out System Ex - will this be of benefit?

Maybe. Really though, it would be better to clean up the tracks than filter out the info. If you go into the List Editor, a sysex message will be a line that looks something like this...



The numbers in the comments are the all important commands, but the dead giveaway is the word sysex in Type.

Therefore, this 'control track' that they refer to - could this be causing the volume and VSTi problems I'm having? If so - how can I remove this 'control' track?

Yes it would be causing the problem. If when you load the file into Cubase, it loads as a single track, then you need to separate into individual tracks... your Master Track should be easily identifiable. To separate out into individual tracks, select the part and choose MIDI > DISSOLVE PART.

The List Editor is a great way to filter information to enable you to delete what you don't need.

Read the manual and all should become clear.

[garww]

There is no evidence there is a control track. We've already offered to inspect the file, but that would be too easy : )