VSTi in Cubase

[richiebee]

There are several types of MIDI message - notes are just one of them!!!

There are -

- Program Change (changes the patch)
- Velocity
- After Touch
- Control Change (changes tons of things like volume, pan position, expression, modulation)
- Pitch Bend (obvious)
- SYSEX (I just talked about this)

There's a reason why each one is a type - they have different handling requirements.

You can draw in a Program change message in the list editor. You can actually write them in any editor, but its just easiest to deal with in the list editor. Sorry, can't remember how to do it in Cubase VST. Seriously... consider upgrading.

Dealing with the quirks of each VSTi is one of the skills you need to develop. Get to know the documentation to see what's possible with your VSTi's. They are all unique and tend to handle MIDI message sin their own way.

Originally Posted by mojo69

What's a program message?

How do I change or delete them in List Editor? I'm reading the manual so will be able to suss it out if you can clarify it some more.

How do I set program messages on a VSTi?

S**t I'm panicking now!

[garww]

Take a pill !! : )

I do wonder if you have fallen for some VSTi hype. Why on earth would you think VSTi is better.

The only thing that has made me envious of the real high end orchestral suites is the performance modeling. I don't see the samples as any better - they've been doing sampling for many, many years and there are no really new "sounds". The higher rate samples are generally better for things like orchestral hits, but not so much for a cello solo.

Passing into the amplified instrument sounds into the synth sounds, I like the VSTi more, and then more.

I spend a lot of time in ELP, Mike Oldfield and Kraftwerk .mid files. I tune with soundfonts and then add VSTi ambiance to some of the electronic instruments when needed.

You shouldn't be having to transpose anything to get the results you desire, so re-evaluate how you are approaching this. And count the number of posts you have made on some fairly straight forward (easy) MIDI "issues".

[mojo69]

Originally Posted by richiebee

There are several types of MIDI message - notes are just one of them!!!

There are -

- Program Change (changes the patch)
- Velocity
- After Touch
- Control Change (changes tons of things like volume, pan position, expression, modulation)
- Pitch Bend (obvious)
- SYSEX (I just talked about this)

There's a reason why each one is a type - they have different handling requirements.

You can draw in a Program change message in the list editor. You can actually write them in any editor, but its just easiest to deal with in the list editor. Sorry, can't remember how to do it in Cubase VST. Seriously... consider upgrading.

Dealing with the quirks of each VSTi is one of the skills you need to develop. Get to know the documentation to see what's possible with your VSTi's. They are all unique and tend to handle MIDI message sin their own way.

Ok - let me get this right - it seems like I need to draw in a program change in List Edit to enable me to get my VSTis to play back successfully the patches I desire in the downloaded MIDI files? Is this correct?

What about 'MIDI FIltering' - I notice there is 'sysex' and 'program change' - could I filter out one or both of these to get my VSTis to play back the patches I desire in the downloaded MIDI files?

[richiebee]

You don't always need program changes in VSTi's. Most will hold the preset that you set up in the panel controls of the VSTi itself... but if there's SYSEX or Program Change Messages in your MIDI file (or for that matter any MIDI message), then they will override what you do on the VSTi itself. Since most VSTi's are not General MIDI compatible VI's, the result can be unpredictable at best.

That's why I say understand the scope of the VSTi's you're using. You handle each one on an individual basis. I'm not sure where you're coming from in terms of experience with other technologies. You seem to be having trouble getting to grips with this and I'm just wondering if there's an easier way to explain it to you that you'll understand. Do you have any experience with hardware synthesizers or anything like that?

[mojo69]

No - I'm a bassist/acoustic guitarist - very few keyboard/MIDI skills. I'm okay setting up VSTis to playback patches when using my keyboard but these downloaded MIDI files are proving difficult.

I've just been playing around with Slayer 2 and a downloaded file - set up Slayer 2 on track one C1 play back the MIDI track - managed to get the patch to play back ok but now the guitar patch seems to be playing slightly ahead of the rest of the other instruments when the song plays!

[garww]

One other thing. you may be hearing "out-of-time", but that does not always mean it will render out of time. You may have to render to hear the proof of your work. In my application, I have to "Lock" the track. It's a process that renders the particular VSTi track so it doesn't have to utilize computer power.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by mojo69

I've just been playing around with Slayer 2 and a downloaded file - set up Slayer 2 on track one C1 play back the MIDI track - managed to get the patch to play back ok but now the guitar patch seems to be playing slightly ahead of the rest of the other instruments when the song plays!

I'm not sure whether this might be caused by the fact that you're using a really old host and a relatively new VI. Delay compensation is one of the things that has evolved over the years to keep everything in time with each other. It might depend on what other VI's you're using. But as garww suggests, if you render it (and in your version of Cubase it probably means bouncing down each track), then bringing it back into the project as audio, then everything is on a level field as it were. IT means that once everything gets lined up, you should be good to go with no unpredictable changes when you bounce down your whole mix.

The version of Cubase you're using was a very early one as far as VSTi's go. If you're going to be doing lots of work inside a DAW, I would strongly recommend getting a more recent one.

[mojo69]

'render' it? You mean export the slayer VSTi track into audio? Yes?

[garww]

Originally Posted by mojo69

'render' it? You mean export the slayer VSTi track into audio? Yes?

Something like that. What ever the manual suggests to improve your perception of what's going on : )

For example, you get a good guitar and render it. Then you move on to the next instrument - the benefit is that now you have one less track doing real-time VSTi processing. If the computer (and it's setup) and software are somewhat aged or not fully compatable, then maybe this will help.

My old PII 450MHz could do pretty good with two or three active VSTi, so you can use that as a benchmark for your configuration.

Additional; Of course the old instruments I had back then where not so power hungry. I was not able to program in whether the drummer was using 2b or 5b.

[mojo69]

I've got a DAW especially built for music production with 2 separate hard drives so no problems with regard to VSTi prcessing but I understand where you're coming from.

Going back to 'program changes' - this is something I can't get my head around.

What exactly is a program change?
How will this affect the MIDI files I'm importing into Cubase? (Some of the MIDI files have been downloaded & some have been taken from a CD-ROM)