Midi gliss..please help!

[highlander]

Im trying to produce a realistic gliss (portamento, or glide) between two notes or two intervals of a solo string sampled instrument.

I want to be able to specify the starting and ending notes or intervals, and have them seen, sound, and show up as such, in a notation program, and in the sequencers notation.

Any SPECIFIC ideas how to do this?

Any help will be GRATEFULLY appreciated!

Thanks Bob


PS:
the ways Ive seen online are the following:

1)

****This method requires that your MIDI device supports standard “Registered Parameter Messages”
(RPMs), which is common but not universal.

1. Set controllers RPN (100 for MSB and 101 for LSB) to 0.
2. Set data entry (controller 6(MSB) and 38(LSB)) to the number of semitones and 128ths of a semitone that you need. For example, setting controller 6 to 12 will allow you to have 12 semitones (1 octave) as the maximum range up and down. The default range is 2 semitones usually
3. Now, at the places where glissando or portamento is required, create curves in pitch bend (NOT a controller!). You should take into account the range you set above. E.g. a curve from pitch bend 0 to 4096 will be a glissando from the original note to 6 semitones above (augmented fourth); a curve from 0 to -1365 will be a sliding from the original note to 2 semitones below--provided that you set data entry to 12. If you set data entry to 6, however, the same pitch bends will give you half the effect (i.e. 3 semitones above and 1 semitone below, respectively).
4. Be sure to set pitch bend back to 0 after the glissando passage is done (it is not reset by controller 121, since it's not a controller).

--The problems I've had with the above is that you cant specify BOTH intervals, as one is sounded by a pitch bend event, and I cant get more that 4 semitones pitch bend, even though CC#6 is set to 12
============
2)

Portamento

*** This control change is not supported by all MIDI devices

Portamento is a smooth “glide” from one note to another (rather like a glissando played on a trombone).
1) Set CC#5 to 0–127, which controls the length of time taken to perform the portamento (0 is fastest, 127 is slowest),
2( Set CC#84 to 0–127 which determines the distance of the portamento (values below 60 start below the note, values above 60 start above
the note; the precise interval depends on the MIDI device).

So you must first “set up” the portamento effect with a CC#5 message, and then attach the CC#84 message to the note on which the portamento occurs.

---The problems Ive had with the above is that it simply does nothing, so it must not be supported, in my equipment.

Again, Any help will be GRATEFULLY appreciated!

[garww]

I understand you wishing to do this, but it's easier to adopt something that already exists on the internet.

[highlander]

Thanks for replying--
but Im lost as to what you mean..

"easier to adopt something that already exists on the internet. "--

please, what would that be?

Thanks

[garww]

I've collected about 1693 MIDI files over the years, just so that I will have references of how programmers do their little tricks.

[highlander]

And those methods I listed WERE taken from the internet..!

So what little tricks would u share for this from so HUGE a midi collection?

How would you accomplish this?

Id be interested to know..

Thanks!

[garww]

I just rock the keys of my MIDI controller, but I can't say I've really needed MIDI gliss. What kind of controllers are you using ? You don't mention what methods you use to do this in hardware.

I can pull out a keyboard and MIDI record my finger sliding up or down the keyboard for you. Maybe that is "adaptable" for your purpose. To my ear, simply overlapping the notes on the keys works for me.

Last week I was doing some very slow slide technique on guitar and I don't think that will translate well.

What I mean by adapting from the internet is that you decide on an existing movement that has the gliss you are looking for and see if there is a MIDI file where someone has programmed it in a usable manner. You are searching for technique, but you can also search for the performance/programming.

[highlander]

I included in my original post the Midi CC#'s I was using, and its all being done in software, (insert Controller, create continuous data, etc In MOTU Digital Performer 5) though I use a Kurzweil Midiboard as my Midi controller.

And the effect is simply a glliss..a glide between notes on a solo vln, heard very often in contemporary string quartet writing.

it isnt a white or black key gliss on a keyboard, thanks.

Thanks for replying-- and enjoy your Midi collection

[bozmillar]

don't get too heated, you didn't include much info on your first post. What sample library are you using? Different sample libraries have different ways of doing it. Some will automatically provide a glissando depending on how hard you hit the key, others will require you to use some other control.

[highlander]

huh?

"dont get too heated"??

Were you referring to me?

and where did u see me--or ANYONE "get too heated"?

I have taken care to be extremely cordial in my replies, as I appreciate someone trying to help, and "getting heated" (YOUR words) isnt my style, nor is this worth it.

Now I appreciate your help (AGAIN!!) and i had provided the standard way it was being done, and would appreciate any more help any other posters might provide.

Thanks again, and all the best to you. And I was sincere in wishing garww enjoyment from his midi collection, and thanking him for trying to help.

ok????

Thanks..

PS Ive been testing it and the first way i posted works, but it seems it won't if the strings are sampled (Ive used Ircam Solo Instruments, and Solo Strings from x-sample).
But it worked with Smartmusic Softsynth, so only synthesized strings must work, as the sampled strings must have a limit in their definition somewhere, as ow much they can be "bent".
The starting note/interval still doesnt appear as it becomes a pitch bend event.

And for completeness, there is SIPS--Solo Instrument Performance Suite:
Solo Instrument Performance Suite

Which requires the Use of Kontakt, but seems interesting and has received some very good reviews.

[highlander]

In case anyone was following this thread, Im glad to report the following:

1) Method 1--setting CC#100 and 101 both to 0, and CC#6 to 12, and CC#38 to 0--works to create a midi gliss,

a) As I mentioned, I needed a way to increase my pitch bend capability to an octave.
This was done via the Super Bender script, part of the previously mentioned SIPS, and Kontakt2:

Solo Instrument Performance Suite

b) For the relationship between musical Intervals, and pitch bend values please see the chart found at :

Bend Range and Pitch Bend Sensitivity Settings

Then, using Create Continuous Data, in Digital Performer 5.13 I set curves to the above numbers; with either negative (-) or positive (no sign) values, determined by the direction of the glliss (up or down);
and since only one note is affected, to gliss an interval required setting up another midi channel with the same preset.

Be sure to set pitch bend back to 0 after the glissando passage is done (it is not reset by controller 121, since it's not a controller).

Also the starting note/interval is still lost for notation purposes, as it becomes a pitch bend event/

2) Method 2--using CC#5 set to 0–127, which controls the length of time taken to perform the portamento (0 is fastest, 127 is slowest),
and CC#84 set to 0–127 which determines the distance of the portamento (values below 60 start below the note, values above 60 start above
the note; theset precise interval depends on the MIDI device)--

I wasn't able to get to work.


3) Using the SIPS Portamento script, Im able to accomplish ALL I set out to do, with good results now, as Im just starting it, and Im sure they'll get better.

No pitch bend has to be set up, or used, so the starting note/interval isnt lost, and is seen for notation purpose.

(I did find a simplified way of setting the Portamento script up at the following, but will need to refer back to the originl SIPS instructions)
http://www.piotrmusial.com/tutorials..._tutorial6.pdf

Thanks to all who tried to help. Its very much appreciated.

Bob