Expression CC11 Issue

[jkramer5]

Hi, I'm having a problem that I just can't seem to find a solution for.

I'm a bass player and produce midi based backing tracks to play and practice to. Usually these are in the form of the same midi files you'd find on the average midi song collection website. Sometimes they are more professionaly made.

I Import the midi to Cubase SX3, then replace the original General Midi instruments with various better quality VSTi's.

The issue I'm having is this.

I've got the song all loaded, most everything is working fine. Except that the expression information on the 3 horn tracks is working in reverse. What I mean by that is that when the horn part should swell louder it gets quieter or it gets quiet when it should get loud.

The VSTi I'm running the horn part thru is First Call Horns. I've got 3 horn parts, each sent to a different midi channel, and ouput individual outs, IE the Trumpet in first call slot 1 uses channel 1, and out's to pair 1&2, and the next horn is in slot 2, and outs to 3&4 and so on.

I've looked in the cubase list editor and the expression data does'nt seem to have negative values, all are between 0 and 127.

When played thru the MS general midi in cubase, the volumes and swells act correctly. When played thru a horn patch in sample tank the expression data seems to be ignored all together and the main volume settings seem to take charge.

Anyone have any idea what's going on with First call horns?

I'm not a midi guy per se, I use it just to do these backing tracks etc, and don't play a kybd, so the CC stuff is pretty cryptic to me.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[garww]

With MIDI you have to match the system of the original performer to ensure everything works. Just for Resets there are SysEx, GM, Windows, GS, XG, etc..

I would examine the VST docs to see what is supposed to work.

[richiebee]

First Call Horns is a bit unusual in its design. Check the documentation that came with it.

R.

[jkramer5]

I've scoured the manual, and at least now a google search finds this post in this forum LMAO.

There isn't anything obvious to me about why the CC11 data is being played in reverse, any Idea what I'd be looking for?

[garww]

I would double check the VST in another app - I keep Reaper Evaluation active along with some older MIDI sequencers.

I could be that the VST is flawed. It wouldn't be the first time since Windows 2 that developers issued a flawed product.

With MIDI I don't rely on VSTi, rather I keep a collection of sample banks.

I wouldn't mind playing with the MIDI file you are talking about : )

[jkramer5]

Well I found the problem and a part way solution. I opened First CAll Horns in Kontakt # rather than it's default Kontakt 2 Player and started diging around for CC information.

I located where it lists CC 11 and sure enough ther is a setting labled "Inverse" that is enabled. This is something being done by First Call itself. nothing to do with the midi file, It's not even loaded.

Now If I can just find where to disable or reset this flag inside First Calls default player.

[richiebee]

You could try editing the instruments and saving them. They should then open in the Kontakt player with the changes.

But to be honest, if you have Kontakt, there's no reason to use the Kontakt player anyway. As I understand it, the Kontakt Player does not work as efficiently as Kontakt does, but that aside, you have much more flexibility and better options in Kontakt.

[jkramer5]

I did do just that. What I did like about the kontakt player that FCH opens in by default is there aren't really any settings. As I posted above, I'm not a midi or key player and all this stuff is new to me, more options = more time filtering thru them for an answer lol.

One small issue I'm having is that FCH hosted in Kontakt3 somehow makes the modewheel in K3 on at about 50% (the virtual one next to the piano kybd at the bottom), I have to solo the instrument and then move the mod wheel on the screen up and down to make it stop. Oh well at least my horn tracks sound like good midi horns now rather than cheesy squeeks.