Does The Public Want Real?

[brandondrury]

Hey dudes,

This one is kind of pointed at Dach, but feel free to chime in.

Dach, you always seam to be pushing for authentic, real tones when using samples. You are looking to mimick the persons human breathing when discussing horn samples. You are looking for the natural dynamics in drums and such.

You were pushing me to get more dynamics out of my drums that I recently programmed. However, I did some homework. I was running live sound this past weekend for some buddies. They were training a guy to run the lights and he was practicing to their cover songs. These were mostly modern rock songs, but, by far, drumming dynamics was the last thing I heard. You mentioned the high end crack that you get the harder a drummer plays. The songs I listened to (by my ear anyway) seam to be smashed with every hit with maximum power throuh versus, choruses, etc.

After recording real humans full time for 4 years, I definitely understand a real performance (unfortunately, I had to deal with some pretty miserable performances sometimes). However, I'm curious if the buying public gives a damn whether we take the time to make a trumpet sound real. I'm not saying that we should make garbage just because the public won't care. However, for me, there is always a balance of how much time should I spend on any given song if I can go on working on another one.

Yesterday I heard a song that gave me the same feeling I get when I watch Schlinder's List. You know that, "Oh My God!" horror type of thing. You can see the video here: http://www.videocodezone.com/videos/..._bridge-3.html

I'm just wondering if the people buying the total garbage linked above having any remote interest in anything remotely real. THAT is selling. It kind of makes me want to quit.

Brandon

[richiebee]

The public wouldn't know real if it went up to them and introduced itself.

[Futant55]

Here is an analogy that I can relate this to for it to make sense in my head. I like a good pice of ground beef cooked on an open mesquite grill, it's so good and real, But sometimes I really crave a fake ass Whopper from Burger King. Although it's not real it just totally hits the spot for that moment. Even though most people might not even know the difference, You never know what is going to click in someones head and they are going to say say "you know I really loved that trumpet part of that song" Sometimes the real thingisn't what does it. Personally I just try and get everything to where I like it and what I think sounds best at every given moment, and how it sits in the mix with everything else.

[sunset]

i've been wondering about this lately, especially when it comes to drums and guitars, as i've been messing around in BFD and also with guitar rig/amplitube etc.

some of the 'real' stuff i hear by self produced local people (including myself) on local community radio etc is obviously recorded 'real' but in its quest for authenticity it has a tendency to sound sonically 'dead' if you know what i mean.

...and as soon as we compress, equalise, balance, all that production stuff - it's kind of...no longer real anyway, right?

i don't want to come across as overly simplistic but...take the old master painters - they were amazing artists - but a painting - or a photograph - or any kind of sound recording - any of these can only ever imitate reality. it's all just illusion - but it's the overall message that counts.

thoughts??

[richiebee]

The reasoning should be simple. Is the purpose of your recording -

1. to document or recall an event
or
2. to entertain

For 1, integrity of a live performance is most important - live off the floor is the way to go, mistakes and all.
For 2, nothing matters but the end result. VI to your heart's content, and make it the best that you can, no matter what you use to get there.

[brandondrury]

make it the best

And this is where it gets tricky. How do you define "best"? In the end you go with whatever makes the music the coolest or the most intense. From that point on, it's just aesthetics.

Brandon

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

How do you define "best"?

As the composer/producer, it's up to you to determine.

[Whammo]

Ah yes, the eternal question, "What does the public want?".
They want the same thing as you do. They want to be liked, respected, they want to feel as though they belong.
I could say a whole bunch of cynical stuff here, and I would probably be correct, but the three things above are the best to say.
Look at all the crap that has passed as music over the years- your choice. What's the defining factor? Marketing. It's not the music that sells, it's what you're selling with the music that sells.
Integrate the mood with ideas and ideals to which people and especially marketers can relate and get it out there and they'll come to you.
What I'm saying is that if you want to be popular, validate what people are feeling and thinking or being told with a moderate amout of skill.
Also, what kids will like and their parents will hate...
Real instruments are real instruments and sample or synth instruments are genuine sample or synth instruments.
You can spend your whole life chasing what other people want, or you can live your life doing what you want.

As always, your mileage may vary...

[abilitydefined]

I think that the public wants real. However, real doesnt always mean realistic. How many realistic teenagers do you know? They simply want to be able to relate. The last band in my humble opinion to strike that chord AND make it big was sublime.... But then again a white guy singing reggae over punk rock riffs....real starts to get pretty damn subjective in those waters.
Can you connect more with your intended audience with ultra realistic trumpet sounds? Probably only if your intended audience is comprised of trumpet players. Otherwise I dont think people would even realize the difference between a trumpet and a french horn.
Sad, but true.

[brandondrury]

h yes, the eternal question, "What does the public want?".

This is the problem AND the solution right here. The artsy purists who get nothing out of radio music often can't believe that anyone else can relate to this kind of music too. Of course, this is a distorted view. I think the artisy purists believe that you must make some kind sacrifice to your own music in order to make it what the public wants. I, however, like lots and lots of radio music. I do have to admit that this is diminishing with each year, though.

I asked Michael Wagener once, "Did you ever know when you had a hit?". He said "Absolutley not!". You never know. He said that he had been wrong pretty much every time even though his lists of hits is pretty damn long. (Bob Rock says the same thing in regard to Metallica's Black Album. He thought "Holier Than Though" was going to be a huge hit. He thought Enter Sandman was not radioable.). This (and the music industries lack of success in recent years) tells me that you can't just manufacturer financial success in music.

What Wagener did say that was this: To be a commercially successful producer, you should have a common ear. As a producer, your tastes should be in tune with what the public wants to hear.

So, the long answer to this question. The public wants what I want more or less. I am part of the public. That's the way I see it. If I think a song kicks ass, I think there will be a large crowd that does too.

You can spend your whole life chasing what other people want, or you can live your life doing what you want.

This is true, but I'm of the opinion that EXTREMELY few people have been successful in music when the sole focus is chasing what other people want. When you look at the top selling albums of all time, I don't see too many albums that I think fit this criteria.

Also, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. You can do EXACTLY what you want to do and end up with something the buying public loves.

Otherwise I dont think people would even realize the difference between a trumpet and a french horn.
Sad, but true.

I dont' think it's sad. If you aren't a music maker, why would you care about the internal details? I use a computer every single day to hopefully make life better for someone. I have absolutely no idea how a CPU process really converts my ideas into text or my php code into the Soundcard Wizard. I guess my point is that you don't have to know how something really works in order to reap the benefits of it.

As long as people still FEEL something when they listening to X music, we are in good shape. The day that emotional intensity takes a back seat is the day we are done.

Brandon