Best orchestration software/plugin?

[Cailyn]

Just wondering what everyone is using for orchestrations? I use a combination of the Essential Instrument Collection in Live (which are frankly a bit weak) and Garritan Personal Orchestra which I found to be quite realistic. However, a reviewer referred to my orchestrations as 'cheap'. I'll post a piece of this music in the review section as a follow-up.

Cailyn

[richiebee]

East West/Quantum Leap and VSL are the biggies.

I use East West Gold XP. It's okay. The sound is good, but very live and the number of articulations you get can be fairly limiting.

Garritan is the dog of the industry. Some people can make it sound good, but it requires a LOT of work to get there.

[RoyJeeBiv]

agreed, richie.

one of my next buys will be Vienna, probably SE. i'm really intrigued by ProjectSAM's Symphobia coming out, as well, as a means of doing things that a traditional library can't do.

i've been using GPO for years...and yeah, it takes a lot of controller tweaking (and EQ) to sound really good.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv

i'm really intrigued by ProjectSAM's Symphobia coming out, as well, as a means of doing things that a traditional library can't do.

The demos sound incredible. When I read "things that a traditional library can't do" I couldn't help but think of the grossly overpriced and less than mediocre sounding DVZ from Audio Impressions, but Project SAM's demos sound absolutely incredible. I'm sure it'll be out of my price range, and beyond my computer's capability.

[RoyJeeBiv]

Originally Posted by richiebee

I'm sure it'll be out of my price range, and beyond my computer's capability.

i fear the same...and i want it just as much as VSL (if not more), as it's right up the alley of what i compose. but it's probably wishful thinking to hope Symphobia will be under the $450 mark...hell, even $350 is pushing it these days for me...

[EnSkorSang]

I agree with Richiebee in that EastWest is excellent. I have the platinum edition and the variety of tones, playing styles etc is huge. It also has about every orchestral instrument you can think of.
My only grumble about it is that the natural/dry/unaltered sound is a bit too reverby to begin with.

[MetalDave]

This is why we should deaden the room. Another person agrees it is better to be able to add abience later rather than have it naturally in the room. The problems I see with sampling programs are things like crescendo, Staccato, etc. I really don't believe there is such a thing as basic Dynamics. Dynamics are very complex and so far I have only heard it sound human when a human plays it. I guess this software is ok for background stuff. Although it always sounds like a cheap keyboard to me. Post your MP3 I would like to hear something good done this way. Maybe I don't need a real orchestra?

[EnSkorSang]

just listen to the samples on the EAst West homepage, it is clear that top end instruments, such as east west and vienna (but my personal opinion is that this is way overpriced for what it is) can be made to sound excellent - when used on their own. My grumble about East West is fair when you are trying to mix with other instruments however when used as stand alone for an orchestral piece you need the big concert hall reverb sound it is recorded in as this is how orchestras are recorded and adding in simulated reverb later will not provide the same nuances and dynamics.

Its a dilemma. I feel the market is very lacking in orchestral instruments for pop/rock bands.
Pop bands such as coldplay, beatles etc etc may record a string quartet, a brass band, whatever, in the same room, or with the same simulated reverb that they recorded the band with, giving a nice mix, however i have been unable to find a very good string quartet instrument, for example, where thesounds are dry and reverb can be added to suit the song.

The market seems to go from fairly cheap and poor orchestral instruments (edirol etc) and leapfrog straight into full blown orchestras with a hundred million different playing styles etc etc. (East west, vienna)

[richiebee]

Try Kirk Hunter. The samples need some eq'ing, but they're dry and pretty well priced.

[richiebee]

Originally Posted by MetalDave

This is why we should deaden the room.

East West were going for a particular style when they recorded their sample library. It's the Hollywood sound out of the box. VSL is more versatile, but harder work. More importantly, it has until recently been out of the price range of most people who use sample libraries.

Another person agrees it is better to be able to add abience later rather than have it naturally in the room.

That's a very generalized statement. I record a lot of classical music and ALWAYS use the room sound instead of recording dry and adding artificial reverb afterwards. It sounds WAY better than artificial reverbs.

The problems I see with sampling programs are things like crescendo, Staccato, etc. I really don't believe there is such a thing as basic Dynamics. Dynamics are very complex and so far I have only heard it sound human when a human plays it.

You're right, but all it requires is an intimate understanding of musical styles and preferably some knowledge of the instruments you're trying to render. Oh yeah, and lots of time and patience.