Isolating the kit cheaply.

[tehguitarist]

Im sure most of the drummers here can relate that when they've tried to record their drums (with a full set of mics mind you) that they still have a very... cheap? live? not tight? sound to them. I was wondering if anyone had any cheap, (please dont tell me to acoustically treat my room, that is not cheap, im looking for a sort of under 500 at the absolute, and i mean absolute tops price range) ways to isolate the kit from the rest of the room, coz im pretty sure its the acoustics thats the problem.

I'm using SDC's to record the overheads, would i be better off using dynamics or close micing the cymbals coz i think the overheads are where everything is going wrong.

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by tehguitarist

Im sure most of the drummers here can relate that when they've tried to record their drums (with a full set of mics mind you) that they still have a very... cheap? live? not tight? sound to them. I was wondering if anyone had any cheap, (please dont tell me to acoustically treat my room, that is not cheap, im looking for a sort of under 500 at the absolute, and i mean absolute tops price range) ways to isolate the kit from the rest of the room, coz im pretty sure its the acoustics thats the problem.

I'm using SDC's to record the overheads, would i be better off using dynamics or close micing the cymbals coz i think the overheads are where everything is going wrong.

Do you have a clip for us to hear??

Besides that, here's a really cheap solution (it costs $0-$50 or so): TUNE YOUR DRUMS and/or REPLACE THE DRUM HEADS then TUNE YOUR DRUMS. It is really that simple. In my opinion, that would be the first thing to try when you aren't getting a good drum sound. After that, try moving the mics around -- even small movements can dramatically alter the sound. Which brings me to my next question. What are all the mics you are using (and what are SDC's)? Then, maybe try changing mics/mic combinations.

Really, though, Room shouold be after tuning, but since we in the home recrding world are limited in our rooms, try those things first. I can give some useful how to's on tuning if you want.

[tehguitarist]

Any help with tuning would be great, I'm PRETTY sure they're tuned alright. The mic's i'm using are from a brand called Bardl, not a big one by any means but yeah they're cheap and i heard them after using them at a studio (not a home one) and they had a pretty good sound. I'm working on getting all the sm57's and akg d112, etc but yeah its a slow process or if you can sugest any other great drum mics i'd wanna look at getting feel free to sugest!

Oh yeah if it helps any heres my drum setup.

Pearl Export Rock kit, Zildjian ZXT rock hats and rock crash, ZHT fast crash and rock ride, Evans EC2 skins on all the drums except the kick which has the protone skin on it (it's the new protone kick skin so i saved myself 150AU bucks buying a new one,) and the resonant heads are all just the original protone ones.


I'll get a clip today but i'll close mic the cymbals coz my friend wants to record his song and i dont feel like doing 6 takes of a hardcore song... im not a big screamer fan.

[brandondrury]

please dont tell me to acoustically treat my room, that is not cheap

You are taking the wrong approach to acoustic treatment. There are TONS TONS TONS of cheap things you can do to improve the sound of the source you are recording. In fact, I have a big section on this in my upcoming home recording book.

ways to isolate the kit from the rest of the room, coz im pretty sure its the acoustics thats the problem.

Well, you must be on medication. If you are pretty sure the room acoustics are the problem but you don't want us to give you advice about room acoustics, the only thing I can say is "buy a water hose". Why? It'll probably be just as good at fixing your room acoustics problem as any other method that avoids acoustical treating the actual problem.

People who tell me their room sucks for recording make me skeptical. Rooms have a character. There is no reason an engineer who knows what he is doing can't get cool sounds out of a shitty room. It's just more work (especially at mix time).

I recommend posting a mix Recording Reviews so we can really hear the problem.

Brandon

[brandondrury]

TUNE YOUR DRUMS and/or REPLACE THE DRUM HEADS then TUNE YOUR DRUMS. It is really that simple. In my opinion, that would be the first thing to try when you aren't getting a good drum sound.

The second would be to get better at drumming. Even with old drum heads, great drummers always sound better than shitty drummers. I'm not saying you are a shitty drummer yet. I'm just saying that the drummer has the biggest effect on the sound coming from the drums.

i'll close mic the cymbals coz my friend wants to record his song and i dont feel like doing 6 takes of a hardcore song... im not a big screamer fan.

What does close micing have to do with the number of takes?

Brandon

[thesilentdrummer]

http://www.menet.umn.edu/~kgeisler/Tuning.pdf That is my favorite tuning site.


HomeÂ*-Â*The Art of Drum Tuning Another pretty good one with more step by step

[tehguitarist]

The second would be to get better at drumming.

ive recorded with myself and a good drummer... its not the playing its the reflections. I was asking if there were any sort of barriers i could put up cheeply.

Ill give a shot at tuning the drums again.. so far close mic'ing the cymbals is working for me but yeah i'll try spaced pair when i get some time coz xy is just sounding crap for me.

[brandondrury]

I was asking if there were any sort of barriers i could put up cheeply.

please dont tell me to acoustically treat my room, that is not cheap

Oh. Well, there definitely is cheap room treatment. Try to do a search for the room treatment that Bob Rock did for The Black Album. PLYWOOD PLYWOOD PLYWOOD.

The cheap tools that are great are: plywood, blankets, pink stuff insulation, Rockwool/rigid fiberglass, book cases (with books), and just about anything that can break up parallel walls.

I'm hesitant to recommend any specific treatment without hearing your room. What I thought was a good room when I started and what I think is a great room now are often two totally different things.

Can you attach a mix with the drums in question to your next post? I could help out quite a bit then.

Brandon

[tehguitarist]

What sort of overhead pattern? Coz close mic'ing wont really get the room acoustics will it? If it doesnt make a difference then i have a mix that alls ive done was fix the levels and it was clipping anyway.



EDIT

ok sorry about the clipping, thats a clean audio file with just some limiting coz i wasnt bothered playing with levels til they were perfect coz im tired and have a music festival tomorrow.

[brandondrury]

Coz close mic'ing wont really get the room acoustics will it?

It's WAY more complicated than that. I really get into details on this topic in my upcoming home recording book.

The short answer is the closer you move to the source, the less room sound you get. However, the room sound still has a huge impact on the sound of the close mics.

---------

Okay, the good news is your room doesn't suck. In fact, I like the way the cymbals sound in it. Smooth.

However, you are hitting that snare like you are a vagina. I know people who smack their dick harder with a drum stick (for fun) than you hit that snare. Unless for specific musical reason, the snare should be the loudest sound in the whole kit BY FAR.

This is the reason that
a) you can barely hear the snare in yoru clip
b) why it sounds so dull and boring. HIT THAT DAMN THING!

It's also possible that the drum sucks or is tuned poorly, but that's up to the drummer to decide.

Brandon