Click Tracks

[thesilentdrummer]

Ok, yesterday, due to boredom and freetime (a deadly combination), I was reading old articles on the site. I came across Brandon's 7 part series on his Michael Wagner Workshop experiences. Though the articles are amazingly awesome in their entirety, one thing caught my attention yesterday. In his section about drum tracking, he mentioned that the drummer used a double-time click track so you can hear the click (normal 4/4 click puts it on the heavy kick and snare). Normally I can keep time well with a click track, but if I start pulling out big fills and stuff, I get off a little. Basically, this trick amused me, so I set up a click track at 240 BPM and 8/4 time (so that the new measure click would be on the first beat instead of 1 and 3). I was surprised, but this trick worked amazingly! Instead of having to count "1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +", I felt the beat. This allowed me to have much more precision on the complicated fills.

Just wanted to know if anyone else came across that and wanted to pass on the knowledge.

[dannyman]

I think as long as the down beat is noticably different, any click track is great, but I can see how this makes it even more difficult to get off beat. The Yamaha dtxreme IIs click track has the option of choosing your click voice, one of which is someone counting. In fact, you can layer the click voices, so you can get a stick click with someone counting (or any other sounds in the brain). And you can adjust the volume separately from the drum sounds, so the click track is deafening and the drums are quiet.

[thesilentdrummer]

Originally Posted by dannyman

I think as long as the down beat is noticably different, any click track is great, but I can see how this makes it even more difficult to get off beat. The Yamaha dtxreme IIs click track has the option of choosing your click voice, one of which is someone counting. In fact, you can layer the click voices, so you can get a stick click with someone counting (or any other sounds in the brain). And you can adjust the volume separately from the drum sounds, so the click track is deafening and the drums are quiet.

cool stuff!

[Baron]

Originally Posted by thesilentdrummer

Normally I can keep time well with a click track, but if I start pulling out big fills and stuff, I get off a little. Basically, this trick amused me, so I set up a click track at 240 BPM and 8/4 time (so that the new measure click would be on the first beat instead of 1 and 3). I was surprised, but this trick worked amazingly! Instead of having to count "1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +", I felt the beat. This allowed me to have much more precision on the complicated fills.

Just wanted to know if anyone else came across that and wanted to pass on the knowledge.

Passed and collected

Now I am going to hammer my drummer with this synced out click and see if that helps him. He has a very similar problem. The standard 4 can lock all day but the fills, rolls, etc, start the push/pull merry-go-round

As the bass player trying to lock onto the drummer, I find myself hunting to the point that my track sounds very ordinary when soloed, with a noticeable loss of groove.

Thankyou for the info and thanks to Brandon for the original story.

Cheers

Baron

[brandondrury]

Yeah the double timed click track works 90% of the time. In fact, I generally like to track with no beat as the downbeat. It's kind of a different philosophy.

I hate it when the click makes the drummer play worse. In other words, I hate it when drummers pushes through a bar and then slow down dramatically to get back on the click. Not all drummers suffer from this, but enough do to come up with a better way. So, I like it better when the drummer just hears a groove in his headphones and he can do his thing with it. There is no real need to completely lock in with a click track as if you were on some perfect grid. At least, I don't think so.

I've always wanted to try using a percussion loop with congas or something for this. I've heard it can be awesome.

[richiebee]

If drummers record to a click, they should practice to one.

While on the subject, one of my friends (not a drummer), frequently records MIDI tracks for me, and does it all on a workstation keyboard, to a click. He has it down so he can ignore the click for things like rits, and ralls, and still get back in right on the beat when it comes back. Quite a talent of musicality I think.

[brandondrury]

What are "ritts" and "ralls"?

Brandon

[richiebee]

rits are sudden slow down's, ralls are gradual slowdowns. Much more common than accellerando's which is essentially the opposite of a rall. Not sure what the opposite of a rit is.

I should add that while I am amazed at how well he does it, I wish the hell he'd just play through them and let me do the slow down's in Cubase. That's one thing he can't seem to get his head around. Poor soul!

[kaneo]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Yeah the double timed click track works 90% of the time. In fact, I generally like to track with no beat as the downbeat. It's kind of a different philosophy.

I hate it when the click makes the drummer play worse. In other words, I hate it when drummers pushes through a bar and then slow down dramatically to get back on the click. Not all drummers suffer from this, but enough do to come up with a better way. So, I like it better when the drummer just hears a groove in his headphones and he can do his thing with it. There is no real need to completely lock in with a click track as if you were on some perfect grid. At least, I don't think so.

I've always wanted to try using a percussion loop with congas or something for this. I've heard it can be awesome.

I know the "Cold play" drummer users a percussion loop insteed of a click track. Becuase he hates useing a click.

[brandondrury]

This is a fairly common thing. I'd like to experiment more with it in the future.

Brandon