ART PRO channel tube strip

[Charlie_M]

OK here is an A/B of the art against my 002 pre's. This is a modestly priced unit and I think it addresses that part of the market where people want something nicer than their stock pres but aren't ready to go full out for the >$1k per channel tpe of deal yet.

So I thought having an A/B out there for this pre against a stock DAW pre would be a good reference point for people.

rest of the gear is: American deluxe strat, stock bridge pickup (vol and tone full out) into peavy jsx into an isolation cabinet with a 10" celestion and e609 silver mic - that part of the chain is common to both clips (which is of an idea I'm working with lately...might have been better to just use a song everyone knows but I went with what's in my head and hands right now). I just switched the preamps only and was careful to make sure I bypassed the comp and eq on the ART unit to just compare the pre itself.

Hope that's of some help.

Charlie

[brandondrury]

Thanks a ton, dude!!! When I get my new system implemented, there will be heavy points given to people who submit little shootouts like this.

There a little much chug in the Art. It has a little more "meat" to it in the low mids which you can really hear on the palm mutes. I'd say the art is a little "bigger" sounding.

With that said, I had to A/B back and forth for 2 minutes after I correct the volumes on them to really hear the difference. On my system, I could hear no noticeable difference other than the chunkiness.

Brandon

[Charlie_M]

Hmmm... Ok I thought I had the volumes leveled before I did the bounce but I was in a hurry this morning just before leaving to go to work so didn't even listen to the MP3's.. just bounced them and posted. I'll take another shot at getting the levels more matched.

I could hear the difference pretty well in my headphones. I would agree that the main difference is that it sounds fatter and ballsier through the ART. Curious... what else were you expecting you might hear? FWIW ... extra beef and ballsiness of the sound is what I thought was differentiating the preamps in the shootout you did (the one with the Agile SG through everything from a presonus to an API). Is there some subtler thing that went right over my head (or through my ears uninterrupted....) on that one?

[brandondrury]

Sure, there is more to preamps than just low end. It's sometimes harder to hear on RMS type of instruments. Some preamps will sound fizzier than other preamps. Some preamps are faster. In tech terms, we are talking about slew rate. In real-world recording terms, we are talking about faster preamps capturing a lot more high end bite / attack from transients.

Check this out:
Preamp Fundamentals I Learned At Michael Wagener's


Brandon

[Charlie_M]

OK Ya I understand about slew rates and all that electrical stuff. Another way to characterize it is the frequency response of the preamp.

I guess if I wanted to assess the transient (high frequency) response, a heavily distorted electric guitar isn't the way to do it... maybe something with a more audible transient like an acoustic? I guess a snare would too but I never have the occasion to mic drums.

At some point I could try to do such a comparison using an acoustic.


Charlie

[brandondrury]

Another way to characterize it is the frequency response of the preamp.

Sort of....but not exactly. In most cases you will find the frequency reponse of preamps to be very very flat. This is especially true when you consider the notion that most signals are going to be EQd somewhere down the line. While one preamp may have a .25dB boost at 100Hz or whatever, this is nothing compared to the 5dB low shelf boost a person may apply.

The difference between preamps is more like the difference between a Strat and a Les Paul. The problem is it is about 15x less noticeable...maybe even 100x less noticeable with a preamp depending on how you test it.

The difference between one preamp and another often has more to do with harmonics in the signal and saturation (which seems to be something most people associate with transformers).

Brandon

[.tom]

the diff in preamps is vast. it's just not very noticable until trax compete for sonic space within the mix. one main diff is how harmonix are treated as the pre is adjusted across its vast gain structure. tranformers effect subsonic freq response. colouration is minimal among most cheepo pres -or maybe i look at it as cheepo pres dont sound rich and robust.. but this worx well 4 making rok. robust pres are 4 all acoustic capture -like orchestra, where you've gotta have great sensetivity below 100hz in order 2 pikup the subtleties of the lo range instruments. not the case with rok. cheepo pres are a bit tinny compared 2 say, earthworks or a neve. but thats it. the coveted boston sound was captured using home studio equipment -including junk pres. the coveted boston philharmonic orchestra however.. no this; germanium transistor technologies were everything recorded with a "solid state pre" until the end of the sixties. if it was ssl bak then, it was germanium. it's a noisy material -germanium. great thd specs were about 70db s/n ratio. but the stuff has a very musical sound to it... and thats wutz most important about a good pre -it sounds good capturing the music.

[Charlie_M]

Originally Posted by .tom

the diff in preamps is vast. it's just not very noticable until trax compete for sonic space within the mix.

Interesting point. I've been thinking about this lately as I've been reading this book here (something I wish I had on day 1). After reading the chapter on EQ in this book I started to think that what you're doing with eq a lot of times is sculpting the various voices in frequency space so that they don't fight with each other, or overlap in an unflattering way, and what the various signal chains are giving you is ... what kind of rock are you beginning with in your sculpting. Is it like a granite, marble, alabaster, or something else? That's very imprecise but... something that occurred to me as I was reading so... thought I'd mention that and also recommend the book. Very logical in its approach.

Charlie

[brandondrury]

the diff in preamps is vast.

I think this is true if you have 6 months to make a great record with pro musicians in a real studio.

As humans, we have this way of making whatever happens to be the biggest problem in our lives this ENORMOUS deal.

A dog who pees on the floor is the worst thing imaginable until

We are low on cash, must sell our second home is the worst thing imaginable until

Loved one becomes terminally ill is the worst thing imaginable until

Aliens invade the planet becomes the worst thing imaginable.

So, it appears that a human must first make sure no aliens are invading, second make sure no one in the family is terminally ill. Third, we need to make sure we don't have to sell our luxuries. Fourth, we need to make sure no animals have pissed on the floor.

I think the preamp problem isn't all that different from making a dog pissing on the floor the biggest problem in your life. Of course, we can all agree on the fact that a dog pissing on the floor is undesirable 100% of the time. However, this preamp issue is subjective. There are cases of clear winners, but they are fairly rare. (That's why there are so many preamp companies. API is all some people need. If everyone felt this way, there would not be a billion preamp companies).

Presonus M80 vs Vintech 1272 Metal Guitars Preamp Shootout is a good example. In the first post, it's clear that one dude prefers the Presonus M80. How? Why? Isn't the Vintech 1272 better?

Brandon

[Petros]

I know this is an old post, but to set the record straight, if this thread is in reference to the "ART Pro Channel Professional Mic Tube Preamp," this is indeed a starved plate "toob" design, and for a little over $300 with compressor and EQ sections you can't expect much else. However, I'm not saying the unit is not usable, if you've got one that is working properly. I had one for a while. It gave me problems, but it did have a 5 year warranty.