Your local bands

[Egoclip]

I really love going to watch and listening to local and unsigned bands in my area. I have heard some amazing bands that are more than worthy of a bigger audience and for me, well, it's about £15 cheaper than going to see a signed band at a bigger venue!

The city I live in (Glasgow, Scotland) has had some good success recently with bands such as Belle&Sebastian, Franz Ferdinand, Biffy Clyro, Mogwai, The Fratellis, The View etc. (I could name quite a few here) and there are always more coming up. Fortunately, there's a good scene here, although some people like to disagree.

Anyway, I love listening to acts from my home city, but what about yours? What is the music circuit like where you live? What are the venues like? And, link me to some websites of some good bands that you like in your area.

I'll post some later when I've had a bit of a look.

[richiebee]

There are zillions of musical acts here (I've heard it said there are more musicians per capita here than anywhere else in Canada, but I'm not sure if that's just the patriotic Newfies blowing their own trumpets). There are tons of bars here too, and lots of them have live music, so there's always lots of competition for a small population. Nothing gets started until 11pm at the earliest, and you're expected to play til 3am at least. The bars are mostly dives, with a few exceptions, that are a little abov ethe "dive" status. Payback is usually free drinks and whatever you get on the door which is good if you get a crowd, not so good if you don't. A few bars are starting to offer guarantee's and the musicians union is trying to improve the whole gig scene here, though I doubt they'll be very successful.

I only have one more of these crappy gigs left. I've decided to leave the band I'm in. I love the band, love the people in it, but I can't take the late nights for peanuts. I can (and do) gigs that get me home by 11:30pm and pay as much as 10 times as much as a standard bar gig. Sometimes it means selling out to something you don't enjoy playing so much, but what the hell... I'm getting old, and while the creative freedom isn't always there, I do have fun with these other groups.

[brandondrury]

Mostly because I'm an anti-social deviant, but I don't get out much. I don't get out much mostly because it's more fun for me to create my own half-assed music than it is to watch someone else half ass it.

I find that my area, for whatever reason, is filled mostly with musicians who don't want to be entertaining. I'm not sure which rippled caused this, but there are very very few musicians in my area who have any interest in doing more than wack off live. I'm a huge fan of wacking off, just not in bars.

Those that do make an attempt to entertain usually go too far with it.


Maybe I'm just a little jaded. Maybe I just love my Cubase SX3 sequencer too much.

Brandon

[Egoclip]

Richiebee: It's strange to hear that nothing gets started until around 11pm and goes on till 3am. Over here bands generally start at 8 and finish around 11. From a listeners point of view I would quite like it for bands to be playing after midnight and it might actually be quite helpful for bands because a lot of people I know work quite late and it would be useful to play after those times, although, I imagine getting up for work the next day could prove difficult!
A lot of bars here have started to get late liscenses until 3am which I like. I used to go out clubbing a lot until the early hours but the idea of being able to just sit and relax in a bar until late appeals more to me.

I find that my area, for whatever reason, is filled mostly with musicians who don't want to be entertaining. I'm not sure which rippled caused this, but there are very very few musicians in my area who have any interest in doing more than wack off live. I'm a huge fan of wacking off, just not in bars.

That problem is fairly common here as well. The music here from a young persons point of view is divided between either lager louts who want to play Oasis covers and indie/artschool wannabees with fashionable hair. Usually they're not very entertaining.


Richiebee, you mentioned getting paid with free drinks/door money. Is that always the case? There is quite a big deal with being paid for gigs here at the moment. In the past year or two there has been a massive backlash in "Pay to play" gigs (i.e where you have to sell a certain amound of tickets to play). It used to be a really bad deal for the bands and promoters I guess were making a lot of money out of it. There was a big surge of bands getting together to put on their own shoes and hire out their own venues and as a result of that, promoters are now trying to pay bands a bit better for the sake of not making a bad name for themselves.
Unfortunately, promoters are getting blamed for a lot of things, but personally I think the biggest problem is that not enough people are turning up to watch at venues and bands aren't doing enough of their own promotion offline (posting up banners on myspace jsut isnt going to do the job!) to get them their in the first place.

I'm guilty of it myself. Sometimes you work so hard on your music that you get the feeling that if you create a decent record then automatically you should earn a fanbase for it. As if it's OWED to you

I think what Brandon said about entertainment is right though. Shows need to be more entertaining. I must admit, none of the bands I've been in previously have been that entertaining with stage presence etc. but I guess that comes with experience. I did play a show last year though that had a lot of work put into it by the promoter and was almost a perfect example of how a small gig should be run. He put together a line up of 3/4 very different and quirky bands. In between that he has hired a group of burlesque dancers for free (in return they got a stall to sell tickets for their own show and sell their own hand made underwear....nice!). A couple of local artists also put their work up on the walls of the venue which were there to buy and a DJ played in between sets. The venue was a dive and quite small but it was packed with people and although I don't think any of the bands or the sound was particularly good, there was a real buzz about the place which earned the bands quite a few fans that night. It really made me re-think how local shows should be done.

I'm off on a bit of a rant there, and I could go on for a while but right now I have food to eat!

[richiebee]

Yeah, I actually come from Bristol, over there across the pond, and I played in a funk/soul band there for ten years. We used to start at 9pm and be done by 11pm (10:30 on week nights). It was about right. You could keep the energy going for that amount of time - two 45 minute sets was all you had to do to keep the bar owners and the punters happy.

Here they want you to do the whole night on your own - not so bad if you're a guitarist, but its murder on the chops trying to play the trumpet for 3 one hour sets. Especially when its so constant... the band I'm in is more intense than any other I've ever played in. I think we manage to entertain, but I've gotta say, I get pretty tired by the end of the night. In fact, if I do a Friday night gig, I'm not really over it until I go to work on Monday morning!

The fee structure varies from venue to venue, but its pretty typical in the downtown bars (which is where all the music happens). The band has to do its own publicity - we typically put about 80 posters in the downtown area and 50ish at the local university for a gig. We've done gigs a week apart in the same venue and got $20 each for one and $150 each for the other ith no reasoning behind it. $150 probably doesn't sound like much to people over this side of the water, but Newfoundland has a low cost of living compared to other places in Canada and there are seven of us, so it's always gonna be a stretch to get a really good wage from the door.

There's another reason I'm leaving the night club gig scene, and that's drugs... despite a smoking ban that has been in effect for a couple of years now, bar owners seem unable to keep pot smokers from lighting up in the bar. And although the owners know the consequences of being caught, they also know the pattern of police patrols. I'm violently allergic to pot, not with the same consequences, but with the same kind of sensitivity as someone allergic to peanuts. I can be in a bar that hasn't seen pot smokers in over 24 hours, and I'll be puking within the hour. Someone llights up in front of me and I'm gone within 15 minutes. The band has kindly stayed out of the worst offending bars, but I still get caught off guard from time to time and it isn't worth the worry I go through every time I get ready for a gig. I don't need it. There are plenty of gigs with better working conditions!
So my favourite gigs are stage shows that pay well with typically amazing scenery (I'm talking about hot chicks not trees and stuff) that are over by 11pm. Typically go to two run through's of the show as a "rehearsal" then play it once a night for a week to ten days. Then forget about it. The band typically has some fantastic key musicians in it, so it's always fun to do.

[brandondrury]

Personally I think the biggest problem is that not enough people are turning up to watch at venues and bands aren't doing enough of their own promotion offline (posting up banners on myspace jsut isnt going to do the job!) to get them their in the first place.

Well, first of all, Myspace is EXTREMELY effective in the right situation. It's more effective than any other method of promoting a band or any other local event in history. The one exception to that may be Facebook, which will eventually overtake Myspace if things continue like they have been.

Myspace / Facebook are tools. Just like a poster. In the end it's what you do with those tools that makes or breaks you.

I'm guilty of it myself. Sometimes you work so hard on your music that you get the feeling that if you create a decent record then automatically you should earn a fanbase for it. As if it's OWED to you

I've recorded bands who spend A LOT of money, time, and effort making a record in 6 months just to have a cd release party for 7 people. There is so much to the whole equation. I get frustrated after busting my ass on recordings just to go to empty cd release parties time and time again. I've learned that's just part of it, but there is something about it that really bothers me.

bar owners seem unable to keep pot smokers from lighting up in the bar.

Wow! They do things quite a bit differently up north. This simply doesn't happen in the US except for in giant stadium type of concerts.

So my favourite gigs are stage shows that pay well with typically amazing scenery (I'm talking about hot chicks not trees and stuff) that are over by 11pm.

It's amazing what proper ambiance can do for a show (and I'm not talking about room acoustics!).

Brandon

[Egoclip]

Well, first of all, Myspace is EXTREMELY effective in the right situation. It's more effective than any other method of promoting a band or any other local event in history. The one exception to that may be Facebook, which will eventually overtake Myspace if things continue like they have been.

Myspace / Facebook are tools. Just like a poster. In the end it's what you do with those tools that makes or breaks you.

I disagree that it's more effective than any other method of promoting. Myspace/Facebook/Bebo etc. are great. It's a quick and cheap way of getting your band it to hundreds of people but it's easy to go unnoticed amoungst the swamp of thousands of banners that are posted on the likes of myspace each day. It seems completely impersonal to me. Maybe it's my ignorance, but I intentionally ignore the majority of gigs I'm advertised just because I'm tired of seeing them.
My point is that too many bands are now relying on the online method of promoting their band alone. It doesn't make sense to ignore other methods that have existed for years (i.e. going around bars with flyers, hanging up posters in the street, going to other gigs/meeting bands) which are also very effective and completely disregard them because another tool has come along like the internet. We should be using them all!!

I don't want to seem like I'm bad mouthing the ways of the internet. I love it for promoting bands and finding new bands that way. I'm just saying that other, older and reliable methods seem to be forgotten.

There's another reason I'm leaving the night club gig scene, and that's drugs... despite a smoking ban that has been in effect for a couple of years now, bar owners seem unable to keep pot smokers from lighting up in the bar.

That's seems really unfair. It isn't something I would expect. Have you thought about or tried to report this to the police? Do they have heavy penalties for pubs that are allowing smoking over there?

It sounds like you work hard and kinda relates back to what I was saying at the beginning of my post. Most younger bands (around my area anyway) seem to lack any desire for real life promotion then wonder why nobody is turning up at their gigs. I mean, they did post 20 banners around myspace, including a two bulletins

I'm guilty of it myself though. There's no way I'd ever put 80 posters up for a gig. I've been sucked into myspace and myspace convinces me I'm working hard the more friends I have

[brandondrury]

I disagree that it's more effective than any other method of promoting.

Disagree all you want. I know pretty much every local band. Most of them are VERY happy to make $100 a night. Close friends of mine really did their homework on the online side of things. We had a few shows that I ran sound and we had over 600 people show up. We are looking about $3,000. It was almost completely online promotion and word of mouth. I'm not saying they've hit the big time (that'll be the day!) but I'm saying that it is very possible to play packed shows to strangers with solely internet marketing.

Now if you are looking for a solution that always works, I'm not sure what to tell you. Just sending out requests, invitations, bulletins, etc is one thing. It has little to do with running a REAL marketing campaign.

I agree that the internet promotion can be done wrong, but so can flyers. (So can SuperBowl commercials). In the end, you need something that is good enough so that people tell their friends and the promotion is done virally.

However, I'd MUCH RATHER hit a home run on Myspace or Facebook than hit a homerun with flyers. If it had a choice, I'd rather just send out a mass text message to all cell phones of "friends".

Just for fun, you should check out
Myspace Music Marketing:: An Interview With Derek Pearson of Promise To Burn

He's paying the bills quite nicely using the web instead of the old school methods.

That's seems really unfair. It isn't something I would expect. Have you thought about or tried to report this to the police? Do they have heavy penalties for pubs that are allowing smoking over there?

Fair? What planet have you been on? I can't remember the last "fair" thing I've heard happen. In fact, I forgot it even exists.

[brandondrury]

Most younger bands (around my area anyway) seem to lack any desire for real life promotion then wonder why nobody is turning up at their gigs. I mean, they did post 20 banners around myspace, including a two bulletins

This is a huge problem. Of course, the problem starts long before Myspace. What's the point in busting your ass on Myspace or whatever when no one likes your music anyway? There is a significant amount of R&D that needs to occur in the basement before the big launch.

I'd say that most band's music calls for the exact marketing plan they have implemented.

There was the big River City Music Festival this weekend. They have 50-100 bands play in 2 days on 3 stages and a bunch of bars. It used to be a big deal to me. I didn't even go this year. I didn't go because I couldn't see the motivation. I just couldn't see how that would be fun. Instead I did some php web programming most of the day, started mixing a tune, watched a WW2 documentary, and here I am. I'm not alone. There are WAY too many things to do today. In a WW2 documentary I watched yesterday, they spoke of the artistic resurgances in both Britian and Germany during the way. When your house just had a 2 ton bomb land in it, it's not like you can stay home and play Nintendo. Everyone was out watching the symphony or playing their banjo or whatever.

Brandon

[siski]

Hiya,

I live in Streatham, a small corner of London.

Localy the "live" scene sucks, you really have to go out of your way to find some unsigned talent. When I do go out and you pass a pub and it says "Live Music" you walk in and it'll be a two piece playing guitar and bass along to a backing track bashing out covers. (I'm not really into this glorified karoke)

When you do find it you'll have to pay, and without knowing what your letting yourself in for.

I think its tough for new bands to break coz either the pubs/clubs/promotors wanna make more than just the money off the booze their gonna sell. They stick a price on the door as well.

I used to go to and host a couple of open mic night, these are generally free and you get to see alot of acts (3 songs each).

Si