July's Mix Hurdles

[ncls]

Here comes July and here are my hurdles for it

How do I properly deal with *all* those vocal tracks
I mean there are dry and lonely vocal tracks plus some effected tracks. At the end, it leads to a whole choir to sing And I'm not used to deal with vocals...

My first thought was to heavily cut some tracks and let some harmonies here and there.
My second thought was to create some questions / answers tricks to make fewer tracks to play at the same time.

So here it is

[danmanisa]

My major hurdle, asides from my well documented move and overloaded work month, was that damned bridge section. I simply found the performance too time consuming and honestly very difficult to edit into something decent. I think my time constraints benefited me in one sense, as all sonic decisions were made quickly, yet editing suffered accordingly.
I did not really think about chopping it out altogether, as I would have thought it would have been against the (loose) rules, but that was recommended to me by a couple of reviewers. Vocally I found it ok, yet I do deal with many layered vocals a lot. I found selecting a good guitar tone in the bridge a pain and I did not solve that.

The high pitched synths were also a pain and I did not use the direct signal of either, but just the reverb effected send of it instead. This seemed to remove all harshness and added a nice war.... w a r m t h to it. I would have loved a few more hours with it, but bulldozers at my doorstep were quite intimidating!

[brandondrury]

I simply found the performance too time consuming and honestly very difficult to edit into something decent.

Interesting. I thought that was the strongest part of the song.

Just in case you missed it, it's absolutely CRITICAL that there is either a delay or long reverb on there. Listen to my reference mix. If the ambiance doesn't clash with the pitch of the real synth, it won't ever work. Maybe I should have left the ambiance on there as that was how it was tracked, too. This is not a hyper popular tactic anymore, but it was used heavily in the 80s both on synth leads and guitar leads. The decay of the instrument is just as much part of the instrument as the dry track. You'll see it requires no editing if you get the ambiance right. Without ambiance, I wouldn't even try.

The high pitched synths were also a pain

The volume fader solved this issue for me. Other than the vocals, none of these tracks are really indispensable. The high pitched synths can go way down or even out and no one would care.

I found selecting a good guitar tone in the bridge a pain and I did not solve that.

What guitar tone are you referring to?

My first thought was to heavily cut some tracks and let some harmonies here and there.

That's where I'd start.

My second thought was to create some questions / answers tricks to make fewer tracks to play at the same time.

Hmmm. That sounds really fun. I'd love to hear this.

Brandon

[jhkillam]

It really sounds like Dan is talking about June. That may explain the confusion, Brandon.

[Jeronimo Mora]

Idk. I quite enjoyed working with this track. There was only one place where the vocal performances bugged me but I ignored it and let it add "character" to the song.

[bholst]

Yeah, sounds to me like everyone is talking about June, not July. LMAO

[danmanisa]

Without doubt, absolutely talking about JUNE! Been so excited to actually be back in the comp after two weeks away, I got a little ahead of myself, or should I say "behind everyone else!" Slag away my dear RR members!
Gotta give credit to Brandon for replying with symmetrical advice that I am sure will come in handy should I run into the exact same problems I stated here in July...... sigh.....

I'm studioless for at least another week while my PC gets an overhaul and the joys of reinstalling stuff takes over..... Maybe I'll fill the time with more insightful, yet poorly located comments.

[willj]

Hey just checking. Does anyone else have any track fragments? You know where the vocals start the song and he goes - "Ttr------ Try if you want" I think there was another spot too.

I have to ask because i didnt notice it or even think it was there when i first imported, and the last i checked i thought it sounded more like "Tr----- y if you want" almost as if the vocal was intact at one point and it was redistributed by digital error. Yeah i know not likely, but i feel a bit hoodwinked here. OR did he actually unintentionally start the song early?

[Jeronimo Mora]

I removed it and moved on.

[acidfrost]

If you listen to Brandon's version it is like that

[ncls]

I talked about July and (going to check it), I didn't misspell the title.
I tried to figure out how to deal with that much vocal tracks at the same time (actually, it was my first thought when I saw all tracks and got the first listen).

[Ableton_Love]

I'm going to start mixing with the vocals again for this track I think, and pay special attention to the high end. Although for an electronic track, maybe the more cranked in the highs the better? haha. I know for sure that VI's are recorded to sort of take up the spectrum themselves, so mixing all that stuff together is probably gonna take some solid complementary eq.

like all the vocal tracks playing throughout the song I think, but the helicon vocal track I'm not quite sure what to do with. I'm finding (for now anyway) that the vocal parts all sound really good without it, and sort of automating it in on words might be the way to go for me.

That being said, I'm gonna let it set for another couple days while I let my brain process some ideas inthe subC.

[m24p]

The most annoying/tedious part was editing the vocals. There were a few spots where the vocals were just too loose, or in some cases even saying some words that the main vox didn't, and it just didn't work and sounded sloppy. Since the manual tuning goes under vocal editing as well, I'm going to say that vocal editing was the most tedious part. Not that that's unusual.

The most challenging part? The groove. I had trouble figuring out what to do with the groove, especially the bass. It's super important to the groove in a lot of places but at other points it really does nothing for the groove and just kinda drones to give the song a foundation. And the kick wasn't quite the danceable feel I wanted either. Drunk people need something simple to dance to. I ended up relying heavily on the snare and putting a transient designer on the bass to increase the attack and reduce the sustain, so it would give me the groove when it had it, but wouldn't muddy things up too much when in was more of a foundational drone. And nailing the low end so it sounds full but doesn't go full blown rumble when you turn the sub up. (I referenced a lot for this to make sure I wasn't going too much either way.) I think I ended up with the groove I wanted but it was challenging.

[m24p]

Update: apparently I cut too much subs for most people's tastes, so I can't say I nailed the groove. Lol. I'm not sure what everyone else is using as a reference. I don't listen to much music like this and I think my low end sounds like the stuff I referenced, so maybe someone can point me to what they were referencing.

[Stan_Halen]

The most challenging part? The groove. I had trouble figuring out what to do with the groove, especially the bass. It's super important to the groove in a lot of places but at other points it really does nothing for the groove and just kinda drones to give the song a foundation. And the kick wasn't quite the danceable feel I wanted either. Drunk people need something simple to dance to.

Update: apparently I cut too much subs for most people's tastes, so I can't say I nailed the groove. Lol. I'm not sure what everyone else is using as a reference. I don't listen to much music like this and I think my low end sounds like the stuff I referenced, so maybe someone can point me to what they were referencing.

I'm curious what you think of the groove in my mix. The bass/kick/snare groove lined up for me fairly quickly (I'm not that familiar with mixing this style either), at least what I thought sounded good. It was other things that I struggled with.

Ironically, I kind of wanted an 80's feel for the song, but used as a reference "Hey Schoolboy" by Stefy (2006 I think). I used the reference mainly as a comparison for punchiness of sounds and the loudness factor (tempos were way different). I had no idea what reference would truly be similar to this style.

[brandondrury]

Hey just checking. Does anyone else have any track fragments? You know where the vocals start the song and he goes - "Ttr------ Try if you want" I think there was another spot too.

I have to ask because i didnt notice it or even think it was there when i first imported, and the last i checked i thought it sounded more like "Tr----- y if you want" almost as if the vocal was intact at one point and it was redistributed by digital error

That was an intentional glitch. We edited that in. I'm not sure what we were up to when we did it, however, so re-creating it may not make any sense.

And the kick wasn't quite the danceable feel I wanted either. Drunk people need something simple to dance to.

Interesting. The Jetface guys do the strait up dance thing quite a bit, but this one was more intended to be..... Oh hell, I don't know. If we were doing Nirvana Nevermind, this one would be "Something In The Way".

And nailing the low end so it sounds full but doesn't go full blown rumble when you turn the sub up.

I'm learning that electronic music requires quite a bit of wide notching at 80-100Hz. It's not a very welcome frequency range. I got my ass kicked on a few mixes (and I'm not even sure I got the low end right on my mix I posted here) but this kind of scooping seems to be common. A lot of the electronic music bass is deep but stays far away from the "mushy" stuff.

Ironically, I kind of wanted an 80's feel for the song

Good thinking!

[bobbybovine]

My biggest hurdle for this month is myself. I am finding all the tracks pretty easy to deal with using the standard techniques, high pass low pass and sidechaining the kick over that moog is essential! I am trying to keep the song the same while adding stuff to emphasize certain parts so trying to figure out how to do what is in my head is the most time consuming, yet fun part of this song. Getting something unique yet tasteful is a big challenge. I have to say though Brandon that I was concerned I would lose interest in working on this song as it is not my cup of tea, I have listened to the track at least 100 times already and I am not sick of it, if anything I am feeling more creative and am thinking outside the box more on each listen. I love that drum room track!!! (hint: you may hear a lot of that in my mix )

[m24p]

I love that drum room track!!! (hint: you may hear a lot of that in my mix )

I destroyed the drum room track.


With an 1176 clone. Which reminds me: why was that that one cymbal crash in the drum room track? I had serious issues working around that.

[bobbybovine]

I destroyed the drum room track.


With an 1176 clone. Which reminds me: why was that that one cymbal crash in the drum room track? I had serious issues working around that.

Me too, it already sounded really compressed to me....so I thought why not smash the shit out of it even more! I think I used the antress distressor to do it. I actually have it spotlighted in the mix

[ncls]

I'm with you with that thing.
I think we can sum up the drum with the room track

[bobbybovine]

How many revisions are you guys finding yourself doing. I know this is my monitoring situation, but when I listen the next day my low end on the mix never seems to be what I intended. I thought I was finished last night and listen today and my kick is 100 times louder than any dubstep mix. (exaggerating just a little). I like it though but it isn't appropriate for the song IMO. Anyone else finding the low end a bit harder to nail on this one?

[ncls]

How many revisions are you guys finding yourself doing.

For me, 10 becomes to be a huge number since I feel my ears are so washed that I can't get right decisions then.

I know this is my monitoring situation, but when I listen the next day my low end on the mix never seems to be what I intended. I thought I was finished last night and listen today and my kick is 100 times louder than any dubstep mix. (exaggerating just a little). I like it though but it isn't appropriate for the song IMO. Anyone else finding the low end a bit harder to nail on this one?

I'm not to that step but I'll plan to kill some lows coming from the Moog because there are some hi freq in it and I think it could work this way
Kick drum and the one coming from the room track sound a bit too "huge" and "massive" for the song IMO.
I'm still looking for tricks to handle all those vocals

[bobbybovine]

I'm not to that step but I'll plan to kill some lows coming from the Moog because there are some hi freq in it and I think it could work this way
Kick drum and the one coming from the room track sound a bit too "huge" and "massive" for the song IMO.
I'm still looking for tricks to handle all those vocals

It was a big kick for sure, and I liked it. I actually added another kick sample layered on it to give it some more punch. But I figured it was big for a reason. In the end I decided to leave it as I listened to 15 other electronic tracks and they ranged from super big to barely audible kicks so a big kick isn't a "wrong" decision here.

[ncls]

so a big kick isn't a "wrong" decision here.

A "big" kick doesn't mean the lowest one I guess

[bobbybovine]

A "big" kick doesn't mean the lowest one I guess

Big in this sense to me means loud, with adequate low end and lots of punch at the same time. The longer the tail of the kicks root bass note makes a difference too.