jackslab's on a landmind

[jackslab1]

I used all the tracks and then some duplicates I really liked this one and wouldn't be surprised to hear it on the radio. A question for Brandon, Is this your alter ego band? Thanks for the cool song and hope everyone enjoys and don't eat me up on this one.

[fHumble fHingaz]

Whoah! BIG vocals on this one! Cool, different sounding drum treatment too. Really good use of the full width of the stereo spectrum as well - nice & wiiiide!

One thing that was quite apparent is connected directly to the fullness in the low end / low-mids of the verse vocal, as well as your mix compression/limiting - because the vocals dominate so much during the verses where the low end in the instrumental part of the mix is not as full, when the chorus hits, the whole mix contracts & actually gets smaller, rather than bigger - which (I would imagine) is the opposite of what you were trying to achieve... This is because the dominant low end in the verse vocals was "pushing down" the instrumental level, & when the chorus hits, the dominant low end of the kick & bass starts "pushing down" the level of the vocals & the other mid-range elements...

The solution can happen on a few levels - the verse vocals could afford less low end - at least, maybe keep the low end in just one vocal, & filter the others off. There is quite a build up of low mids in the vocals, which tends to detract from some of the top end "gloss" on them - scooping out some low mids on the lower register vocals would help that too. Also just automating them down in level for the verse would assist the chorus vocals to appear louder by comparison - maybe tweaking them up in level at tad would be good too. On another level, you could try a high passing the sidechain of the mix compressor, so that it doesn't get triggered so much from the low end. This would stop the mix compressor from altering your internal mix balances so radically with the presence of a dominant low end element.

One other thing I could suggest is a little thing you could try when it comes time to "master"... Put a high quality eq across your master buss & pull up an appropriate reference track. Try dipping a bit around 200hz (gently), then compare your track with your reference. If you're getting a similar clear, "un-woolly" sound, you're home; If you have to pull out more than a dB or 2 before it starts to sound clear, you'll probably find that other neighboring frequencies are being negatively affected too. If that is the case, it's probably a good idea to go back to the mix & check each element to see which ones are contributing to the low mid buildup, then treat them individually.

don't eat me up on this one

No chance - Overall, I enjoyed your take on the mix - nice job!

[dudermn]

.....started singing
'Don't you want me baby'

This sounds like it's live.
And if it was live it'd be a great show.

[jackslab1]

Thanks for listening. @fHfH- I guess I've been trying to get the drums and bass to play well together I kinda let the vocals go alittle. Now if I can just get it all to blend I'll be on the right track. I was definetly going for big and thumpy (is that a word?) on the kick for this one. Really liked the song and it had me moving. And I actually had time to mess with this one a little more than last month. Have to say thanks to everyone on this forum for all the advice and help. Maybe I'll make the sweet 16 before it's all over.

[Jeronimo Mora]

Nice mix !

It seems a bit odd having that much reverb on. Everything. Lol. Having that much ambiance on almost the entire track makes certain elements (those with the reverb) lose clarity. During the chorus, it becomes especially difficult to discern all the elements clearly. There's a lot going on the upper midrange and in the lower midrange. The clave could have been made less sharp by using an EQ sweep to remove the offending frequency. If I recall correctly (I'm probably not) it was something like 6.3 khz. I think the biggest problem in the mix is the amount of reverb. Kill 85% of it and I'm sure everything "wrong" with it right now will go away. It seems like everything fH mentioned is due to the amount of those frequencies adding up in the "room" you put the stuff in.

Good mix !

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Some of the vocal reverb effects seem to be colliding/overlapping/hogging the frequencies of other instruments,heres a suggestion i got just a few nights ago about reverb and it has seemed to work for me to some degree.
When using reverb on vocals,try to have the settings of the reverb set uniform among all of the vocals tracks unless theres a special case for having a different amount of reverb.Also when using reverb,try it on one track first and try to listen for when the reverb stops and starts on the track your trying it on,then by using the "time" knob on your reverb,get it to stop and start in time with other instruments so the "tail" of the reverb doesn't overlap other frequencies and you will notice the amount of clarity you get back from the other instruments and also the vocals themselves.

You can use as much reverb as you want obviously,im all for heaps of reverb,ive even tryed it myself on this track,but have since decreased the amount to a more enjoyable level.On the vocals anyhow.

Im still a amateur with all these things so its just a suggestion,that has seemed to work for me,when trying get more clarity and rhythm with reverb.

By no means am i trying to "school" you,or anything like that,i only learnt this stuff 2 nights ago! and it might be a crock of bullshit for all i know,but when using it on this track,i noticed better results with uniform reverb.

Cheers

[m24p]

Big sounding!

Sibilance is pretty intense, though. I got a good tip last month - when working with multiple vocals, you can de-ess all but the main one pretty heavily and it can still work.

How far to the right did you pan the snare?

I dig the pumping on that lead synth. Could have made it more obvious, though. Think Skrillex.

Cello volume had issues in the original track and at 2:41 you didn't fix it. It sounds weird having it drop back like that.

Big, and bold, commercial loudness, good balance as will.

[Magnolius]

Massive mix! To me there's something strange with the mix though, like you have boosted the side channel massively, everything is wide but nothing is really in focus. I also think there's a boxy tonality to the mix. I don't know if the mastering is a bit overdone? I can hear clipping throughout the whole song... I don't mean to be rude I think your mix have plenty going for it, I'm just wondering if you took some of the processing a bit too far...

[jackslab1]

@ jeronimo- Guess I went to big with the reverb and probably the delay. I'll kill some of that and see what happens. thanks for listening

@billybob- I think I need alot of schooling. Preciate the advice on the reverb. I'll definately consider that on the next one. Seems that when I listen to pop on the radio there is always a ton of reverb on the vocals.

@m24p- Didn't do the de-ess thing. Thought I killed that with the reverb and all the vocals. On the snare I panned it 20 to the right. And that cello I thought sounded better with the volume going up and down. I did pump it up after the synth solo because I thought it sounded cool with that bass rythm. Then I turned it back down when the volcals came back in. Thanks for listening and I'll play around with it to seee If I can get it more even.

@magnolius- Didn't think your comments were rud at all. Thanks for listening and commenting. Judging by the comments above I think I went over board with the reverb and 2bus processing. Think I'm going to change the way I do the 2bus processing and hopefully that will help get everything else blended better.

Thanks to everyone who listened and commented and voted.

[m24p]

And that cello I thought sounded better with the volume going up and down. I did pump it up after the synth solo because I thought it sounded cool with that bass rythm. Then I turned it back down when the volcals came back in. Thanks for listening and I'll play around with it to see If I can get it more even.

I'm not talking about the large scale automation. Listen just that one measure that starts at 2:41-2:44. The cellos loud for that whole section sounds cool, but that volume dip (in the original track) from 2:41 and 2:44 doesn't work well and should be automated to a level closer to the nearby measures.

[jackslab1]

I'm not talking about the large scale automation. Listen just that one measure that starts at 2:41-2:44. The cellos loud for that whole section sounds cool, but that volume dip (in the original track) from 2:41 and 2:44 doesn't work well and should be automated to a level closer to the nearby measures.

Damn dude your ears are better than mine. I was thinking that was just the way the note change from the high note to low note. To be honest, I didn't even notice it before. Thanks for pointing that out.

[wireman957]

Hey, jackslab. This is a pretty loud mix according to my meters. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the real usable volume is being stolen from you by some serious sub-bass in the kicks and bass. When I was analyzing the kick tracks, it seemed to me that there is a triggered sine wave component in each track: the verse is around 80Hz and the chorus all the way down around 55Hz or so (as best I could tell from the RTA in Alloy) I know I had to high pass my kicks more than usual as well as do some careful EQ just so I didn't give up all my headroom to sub-bass. The Moog bass track also has some serious subs going on, all the way down to at least 30Hz, stealing more headroom for frequencies that are not very usable.

The reason I bring all that up is that I'm hearing some distortion in your mix, mostly in the chorus. I suspect you had to push your 2-buss limiter harder than normal to get the -6dB level out of the mix and therefore got distortion along with that level.

Combined with what fHumble said, I think you just ran out of headroom way early. It's a shame, too, because I really like where you went with this. The vocals sound big and sweet as do all your other mix elements. That 2-buss distortion is killing you, though, and I really suspect the sub-bass in the bass and kicks (I know I had to high pass just about everything way more than I normally do and even then, the low end was a little touchy).

(Note: I just opened up some RTA software and there's quite a bit of energy in your mix down at 30Hz and even lower! In fact, this RTA is showing the energy at 30Hz is frequently only 6 or 7dB less than what's showing up at 60-70Hz.)

[redworks]

I was reading through the comments by you and i noticed that you were working on getting a solid low end and getting the bass and kick to play nice together. i would say from my view point you did a good job with that. The drums sound great as well. The vocals size and mush bring down the overall mix. Also the 'mastering' has affect the effectiveness of the vocal dynamics. Did you mix into a 'mastering' setup or 'master' after the mix was completed? I have found that mixing into a 'mastering' set-up has helped me to get it loud and avoid issues like this for the most part.

[jackslab1]

Yea I mixed with the mastering set-up on the 2bus. And I guess that's what hurting on my mixes so much. I'll definatley work on this from now on. Thanks for the listen guys.

[dudermn]

Really though saying something sounds like it's live is cheating....

It's that stadium delay on the mix.
And than the whole 300-400 range just attacking....

So... I took a look at your mix in acid...
And holly melodic wiffle bats !!

There's so much low and mid-low!
You actually have an infrasonic harmonic from 0-50 !!! You can watch it wave up and down about 2 times a second.
Then from 200 and down there's a giant hill of louder dbs than the rest.

After words... 10k is dead.... as in from there on out there isn't any sonic information.
Brilliant idea to peak the vocals at 1573hertz to get them really present.

So... the squash factor at the end of it all was pretty harsh to.

The mix is great non-the-less but because it sounds like a really good recording of this song played at idk, dodgers stadium, and not the radio friendly version....it might not do to good.
I spent 2 minutes cleaning up the mix so that you can hear your mix from another perspective

What I did was cut to about 40hertz (aggressive!) than bring down the peaks at 1.5khz with a notch, and tried using a highshelve.
Than with a 3 band comp. Hooked up the low end to pick up (compress) from -20 dbs and up at 5:1 , while compressing the other 2 bands very softly
It won't sound better, I just wanted to emphasize the low-end dirt

[jackslab1]

Really though saying something sounds like it's live is cheating....

It's that stadium delay on the mix.
And than the whole 300-400 range just attacking....

So... I took a look at your mix in acid...
And holly melodic wiffle bats !!

There's so much low and mid-low!
You actually have an infrasonic harmonic from 0-50 !!! You can watch it wave up and down about 2 times a second.
Then from 200 and down there's a giant hill of louder dbs than the rest.

After words... 10k is dead.... as in from there on out there isn't any sonic information.
Brilliant idea to peak the vocals at 1573hertz to get them really present.

So... the squash factor at the end of it all was pretty harsh to.

The mix is great non-the-less but because it sounds like a really good recording of this song played at idk, dodgers stadium, and not the radio friendly version....it might not do to good.
I spent 2 minutes cleaning up the mix so that you can hear your mix from another perspective

What I did was cut to about 40hertz (aggressive!) than bring down the peaks at 1.5khz with a notch, and tried using a highshelve.
Than with a 3 band comp. Hooked up the low end to pick up (compress) from -20 dbs and up at 5:1 , while compressing the other 2 bands very softly
It won't sound better, I just wanted to emphasize the low-end dirt

Wow dude. Never thought someone would go to the trouble of doing that. I was actually going for big bass in the kick.

[drummer67]

I have to agree on the reverb makes it sound like it is a live performance in a big hall.i feel the vocals could of been low cut more.the low end in general has alot going on below 35-40 hz. and with the reverb it tends to muddy up the mix a bit.I think i'm hearing a boxiness thing going on but this could be because of whats going on below 40 hz.I think the vocals could of been a few db lower in the mix but hey I took the same aproach putting the vocals out front as well.mix wise theres good balance.It is a loud and massive mix though good job.

[Ewout]

Hey Jackslab, nice mix, very loud indeed. Your bassdrum is huge! I think the vocals work, but could have been tuned more. I type while listening, it seems that the solo synth "out of tune-ness" is emphasized by the reverb you are using...
I agree with the others on the low frequencies, they seem to muddy the mix.

Cheers,

Ewout

[ncls]

Great job, I think it sounds more or less like you wish and that is great.

On the reverb side, the song looks a bit tricky because some tracks allready carry some.
So choosing a send reverb means choosing one that can match the allready present one. If you don't, the two reverbs can't work together and you create two rooms where some tracks play in one, and other tracks in the other without sharing something in common
It can explain some of your masking issues.

Plus, getting a "big" or "heavy" kick drum or bass sound doesn't mean it needs very low frequency. The fact is as you go in low freq, your sound lacks of definition and vice versa.
And whatever low note you play, say C0 at 33 Hz (very low ), it also contains harmonics like 66 Hz, 99 Hz, 132 Hz and so on; those harmonics are as important as the 33 Hz. Moreover, with the same note, if you kick that 33 Hz, the harmonic content still play the same note and sound more or less the same.
At the end, handle those harmonics carefully to achieve your "big" or "heavy" sound and kill some lows (with a high pass filter) to get back some headroom.

[IMF OnSite Recording]

The kick has too much low oomfy reverb on it.

Between revealing more dry kick and toning down the limiting I think this mix would be great. It seems to suffer from headroom on the chorus. Couple minor adjustments is all. Instrument balance is good, although you said you used all tracks and im missing a synth in the chorus. The mS2000 was it? Anyways,, its a good job overall just watch the headroom.

When you are bringing up faders at the beginning of mixing, make sure the busses have several db of headroom. I am usually around -10 by the time i get to the master bus.. sometimes even -15.

Sometimes when people mix, they get stuck in the mode that all adjustments need to be increased (This isnt loud enough, now this isnt loud enough, now this, etc.) That is a sure path to paint yourself into a corner with no headroom in the end and all sorts of red lights going off.

good job man

[IMF OnSite Recording]

*I am listening for a second and third time but now I'm actually on my monitors instead of my HD280 pro's. This is only fair to everyone that I listen again and with my standard listening environment. I am also toggling in and out my outboard stereo EQ that is finely tuned for listening for pleasure which I use to keep my lows and highs in check when mixing*

Vocals are powerful, I feel as though they could really be high passed more. Alll you need to do to your "All Vox" bus (if you have one like that, if you dont, it's a good idea to end your vocal routing chain to at least one stereo bus before hitting the master) is do a high pass and sweep for it to get rid of rumbles and subs. If you start approaching 200 hz and pass it, you will notice the vocals start to sound thin and lifeless. Make sure there are enough lows to keep the meat but not be stepping on the bass and kick.

Like before, I would lean a bit more towards a dryer mix %. Other than that, man the balance is great and you did well. Good job

[bobbybovine]

Hey Jackslab, Very wide vox man. I like your creative ideas here. What I feel is that your levels sound a bit screwy which is taking the effectiveness away from your ideas. It is great that you have the vox as up front and loud as it is, but I am hearing an inconsistency in the level of it for example stepping on a lanmine part is more dominant than the rest of the vox before it. I think as a whole some more high passing is necessary to get them to sit in the mix without totally dominating. Because of the "full spectrum" of the vox it definitely seperates it from the rest of the mix IMO to where the instrumentation is losing power, especially the bass, kick and snare which for this style song needs to pound a bit more. I think you are on the right track with this mix, just need more balance throughout.

[kakeux]

Hi,

Orignal mix! and that's refreshing after my kind of listening rush. The vocals are present and interestingly treated. Maybe during the choruses, they seem less wide than during the verses, would have expect the opposite.

However I have a personal problem with the reverby or roomy sound you got. It's really a taste thing, but it doesn't really work for me.

I will add to other comments that I could hear some distortion/clipping during the last chorus, mostly on the left speaker.

Cheers!

[danmanisa]

Typing as I listen JS, so far a very unique mix!
The panning, delay and reverb on the verse vocals are very confronting. I think they work in a way, yet I would argue that they are a little too loud. The panning makes the deeper vocals really stand out (the left in particular) and they sort of make the chorus and pre chorus feel smaller, both due to the width and volume change. I would imagine a reduction of 3-4 db in the panned vocals would still have them sit on top of the mix and would not effect the following section.

For the best part the choruses are really singing along nicely! The harmonies are superbly balanced. I'm really struggling to hear the kick through a lot of the mix. The chorus is not too bad, but other sections it almost disappears. As the bass is very much in time with the kick on this track, perhaps use a bit more of aggressive side chaining to bring that bass down for a little bit to let the kick come through more. I can hear the power behind it, which would be the subs, but it is not really cutting through.
I can hear that you have tried to really push the 2 bus compressor here. overall, the feel is pretty good, but there is a sense that the dynamics are pretty small, especially in the choruses. It's a tough one, because the song really does call for a harder than normal press in that area.
it's a seriously well worked mix and it is clear that you have done a heap of work on it! A few things are holding it back from being a brilliant mix, but I don't think you are that far away at all! Nice work!

[Ableton_Love]

This definitely had a big leg up on the competition in the volume department. This is noticeably louder than the last 5 mixes I just critiqued.

I feel like the background vocals really are too up front. They're louder than the main voc track. Usually when I have to pan things hard I'll have to bring the voume down to compensate for the placement in the speakers. Plus you have a lot of low frequency buildup in the backup parts, if you chop all that stuff off it'll make everything in the mix sound a lot cleaner.

Not a huge fan of the swishy swelly verb that was going on with the vox at the end, but I don't hate it either.

Nic.