SDC June - Hated Bovine Love - Bobbybovine

[bobbybovine]

Cool song, although I can't say I dug it at first. I didn't really see where to take this to "new" places but after a couple of listens I got some ideas, and that's never a good thing. So the prerequisite for listening to this is to close your eyes (especially at the chorus after the bridge) and imagine Mr. Kakeux with his guitar center stage in front of 50,000 people doing the old Pete Townsend windmill. Hopefully the client likes this one and all of you fine gentlemen and/or ladies. Horns up!

[Stan_Halen]

Wow Bob! Considering I just watched a The Who documentary last night, it gave me a good reference! You have some huge sounds here, and bold choices. Overall I think this is really great! I'd say you went for the "exciting" mix and may well have achieved it. To critique, I usually listen to a mix both at loud levels (for low end and irritating frequencies) and soft levels (for mix balance), but I kept turning this one up ... which is a really good sign!

If I have to offer some kind of critique [twist my arm ] ... the bass seems to come in and out relative to the kick drum. Maybe it's high compression or automation on that track, it just seems to waver in intensity in a somewhat unnatural way. Or it could be competing frequencies ... maybe do that "ducking" trick on the bass (side-chained from kick) to help this if you didn't already.

Great job!

[willj]

Grooooovy man. I see where you were going with the track and i dig it. Ive heard a couple mixes resembling this one in the way that it seems like more of a stripped down acoustic version. Its very cool like that. i just cant figure out how you guys had the the creativity to hear it in that context. Pretty much the last thing i was hearing.

Well my critques are mix related. Firstly is that the kik drum is the loudest thing in the mix at all times. It sounds a little out of place. If you were sending the kik and bass to the same compressor the bass never touched it, and the compressor was being triggered by mainly the kik.

The bass coulda used some automation to keep it steady thru-out the tune. There were some pretty big swings in levels at times with the tracking, and modest compression wasnt going to be enough to get it. It sounds pretty good when the tune is stripped down, but gets most noticeable when you bring the heavier guitars in and out to the end.

Finally youve got a couple pops and clicks going on here. The most noticeable being at 2:34.

Still a very solid mix. You made a lot of choices that just worked well for the song. Setting yourself up for success so to speak. I like your bass sound alot and thought it was especially cool what you did with it in the breakdown. you may have hi passed it clear up to 2k or so. Very cool! ..And then your ending sounds beatuiful as well. My favorite of all ive heard.
You have steadily stepped up your game every month. Didnt expect anything less!

[Magnolius]

Great mix! Especially when played loud There is a lot going on in the bass registry here but it seems to work pretty well. Have you put some kind of octave doubling effect on the bass? I think the bass sounds good but feels like it's lagging behind a bit, maybe the bass track could have been nudged a little... In the bridge the drums seems to be a little behind the rest of the band. Other than those timing issues I think this is a great mix! Love the moment the guitars kicks in after the bridge! That's rock n roll

[wireman957]

Really nice mix, Bob! I knew you'd come up with something interesting. Several things that I found really cool - what you did to the bass in the bridge made me think of a jaw harp jaw harp.jpg. That's definitely not something I would have expected! Loved your ending, too. You sure took that in a different direction! The only possible negative I found was a certain amount of boominess in the bass where it seems to have been a bit resonant at certain frequencies so that some notes feel louder than others making the bass part a bit uneven. The bass is really BIG sounding, though! Kakeux sould be happy! I listened again on my headphones to make sure I wasn't just hearing my room . That wasn't a major thing, just a minor quibble, really, and it adds a live arena-like sound to the mix, which is, after all what you going for. Your drums sound really good as do all the other elements. Did I mention that I really love the ending?

You balanced everything really well, brother and this is a great big, powerful mix! Really, really well done! Excellent stuff!!!

[fHumble fHingaz]

Cool mix Bob - Love the gnarly bass tones that come through in the verses.

The drums sound excellent, & the vocals are cool too - it sounds like you went for a slightly ambient, less "in your face" sound, but it works for me.

One feeling I get from your mix is that it is "midrange starved" - both in the high mids (guitars) & the low mids (bass)... There seems to be a bit of a spectral hole there...

The bass has a tendency to cut "in & out" of the mix, which signals the fact that it might need some more firm compression. Particularly that 100hz & below region, which really needs squashing damn hard to be at a constant level to not suffer from nodal spikes. This is where splitting the bass into different bands for compressing might help. I listened to your mix earlier on my small speakers at work, & the bass appeared to be very low on them, which gave the impression of a "drum heavy" mix. I can hear on my studio monitors now that that isn't the case, however it might relate to the fact that the bass needs more low-mid presence to translate across a number of systems well.

Nice job!

[redworks]

yeah man lets rock. started big and used the breaks to create some space for breathing. it is loud but it is not flat and it definitely has life to it. the ending is awesome what a great way to bring it down. bridge is a great as well. except for the bass, which i probably would not have noticed if we were not critiquing, this is great mix. i felt the song and that is what is important. so thanks for deviating from the path of 'normal'.

[maschneid]

Like fHfH said Gnarly Bass! Love the drums nice and big! However the kick can be kinda dominating through out the mix. I like the direction you took with this. Vocals sound great! I like your take on the bridge section also, Drums and vocals then BAM! full on big ending. Love the way you did the ending as well. Nice way to ease it back down. The kick is really the only thing that stands out to me, and it isn't a very big deal. Minor really. Great Job!

[bobbybovine]

Wow Bob! Considering I just watched a The Who documentary last night, it gave me a good reference! You have some huge sounds here, and bold choices. Overall I think this is really great! I'd say you went for the "exciting" mix and may well have achieved it. To critique, I usually listen to a mix both at loud levels (for low end and irritating frequencies) and soft levels (for mix balance), but I kept turning this one up ... which is a really good sign!

If I have to offer some kind of critique [twist my arm ] ... the bass seems to come in and out relative to the kick drum. Maybe it's high compression or automation on that track, it just seems to waver in intensity in a somewhat unnatural way. Or it could be competing frequencies ... maybe do that "ducking" trick on the bass (side-chained from kick) to help this if you didn't already.

Great job!

Thanks Stan or should I say Rob Halford the 2nd! You know I noticed that quite a bit last night, I was smashing the low end pretty hard as well as notch eqing and sidechaining etc and it still didn't conform. I didn't hate it but I pride myself on getting the bass right and am disappointed that I let it slide a bit.

Grooooovy man. I see where you were going with the track and i dig it. Ive heard a couple mixes resembling this one in the way that it seems like more of a stripped down acoustic version. Its very cool like that. i just cant figure out how you guys had the the creativity to hear it in that context. Pretty much the last thing i was hearing.

For me when I first brought up the faders to listen I had the distorted guitars really low and liked it so I ran with it, I also chose to bring in the distored guitars more and more as the song progress then BAM with the last chorus, it just spoke arema rock at that point.

Well my critques are mix related. Firstly is that the kik drum is the loudest thing in the mix at all times. It sounds a little out of place. If you were sending the kik and bass to the same compressor the bass never touched it, and the compressor was being triggered by mainly the kik.

You know I was up and down with that last night, I would turn it up then down then up then down blah.. I said fuck it, I wanted the drums loud in this one as the groove totally drives this song. I hear ya though, I probably could have worked it in a bit more.

The bass coulda used some automation to keep it steady thru-out the tune. There were some pretty big swings in levels at times with the tracking, and modest compression wasnt going to be enough to get it. It sounds pretty good when the tune is stripped down, but gets most noticeable when you bring the heavier guitars in and out to the end.

Like I said above to Stan, I smashed the fuck out of that track, and cut EQ on those resonances. (Giving myself a dunce slap!) I totally never thought of automating the bass at those notes. How do I go about automating pretty much 50 tracks and not the bass....ugggggghhhhhhh That would have taken care of it I am sure.

Finally youve got a couple pops and clicks going on here. The most noticeable being at 2:34.

How did they get in there. When I listened after reading this I was like WTF?? I listened to my previous mixdown and it wasn't there. The last thing I did last night before exporting this version was some minor automation adjustments at that point, I guess I blew it I don't hear any others though. can't your sexy ears point them out to me?

Still a very solid mix. You made a lot of choices that just worked well for the song. Setting yourself up for success so to speak. I like your bass sound alot and thought it was especially cool what you did with it in the breakdown. you may have hi passed it clear up to 2k or so. Very cool! ..And then your ending sounds beatuiful as well. My favorite of all ive heard.
You have steadily stepped up your game every month. Didnt expect anything less!

When I tried the midrange only bridge, the ending just exploded and I went...hell ya, I would pay to go to a show and feel the firebombs, lazers, fireworks, flares, strobe lights, and crowd going nuts when that kicks in. I liked it I was concerned it was a bit too big but hey go big or go home! Thanks for your comments man, appreciated as always.

Really nice mix, Bob! I knew you'd come up with something interesting. Several things that I found really cool - what you did to the bass in the bridge made me think of a jaw harp . That's definitely not something I would have expected! Loved your ending, too. You sure took that in a different direction! The only possible negative I found was a certain amount of boominess in the bass where it seems to have been a bit resonant at certain frequencies so that some notes feel louder than others making the bass part a bit uneven. The bass is really BIG sounding, though! Kakeux sould be happy! I listened again on my headphones to make sure I wasn't just hearing my room . That wasn't a major thing, just a minor quibble, really, and it adds a live arena-like sound to the mix, which is, after all what you going for. Your drums sound really good as do all the other elements. Did I mention that I really love the ending?

You balanced everything really well, brother and this is a great big, powerful mix! Really, really well done! Excellent stuff!!!

Thanks for your comments wireman. I am glad you liked it, with the exception of the errant bass notes this is definitely the best mix I have ever done IMO. At least I seem to be improving.

Cool mix Bob - Love the gnarly bass tones that come through in the verses.

The drums sound excellent, & the vocals are cool too - it sounds like you went for a slightly ambient, less "in your face" sound, but it works for me.

Thanks fHumble

One feeling I get from your mix is that it is "midrange starved" - both in the high mids (guitars) & the low mids (bass)... There seems to be a bit of a spectral hole there...

With the bass I know exactly what happened there now thanks to willj. I notched way too aggressively to try and tame those out of control high bass notes when I shlould have automated. The guitars I have to say I am not noticing what you hear. Do you think it is a result of high passing too aggressively or is it more in the crunch part of the tone?

The bass has a tendency to cut "in & out" of the mix, which signals the fact that it might need some more firm compression. Particularly that 100hz & below region, which really needs squashing damn hard to be at a constant level to not suffer from nodal spikes. This is where splitting the bass into different bands for compressing might help. I listened to your mix earlier on my small speakers at work, & the bass appeared to be very low on them, which gave the impression of a "drum heavy" mix. I can hear on my studio monitors now that that isn't the case, however it might relate to the fact that the bass needs more low-mid presence to translate across a number of systems well.

Again something I never thought of was a multiband compressor to tame that bass. Great suggestion, I will give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks for your comments, Always respected and appreciated.

[bobbybovine]

yeah man lets rock. started big and used the breaks to create some space for breathing. it is loud but it is not flat and it definitely has life to it. the ending is awesome what a great way to bring it down. bridge is a great as well. except for the bass, which i probably would not have noticed if we were not critiquing, this is great mix. i felt the song and that is what is important. so thanks for deviating from the path of 'normal'.

Thanks redworks, nice to know you are feeling what I set out to achieve with this. I find that is the hardest thing to figure out how to get what is in your head translated into the mix.

Like fHfH said Gnarly Bass! Love the drums nice and big! However the kick can be kinda dominating through out the mix. I like the direction you took with this. Vocals sound great! I like your take on the bridge section also, Drums and vocals then BAM! full on big ending. Love the way you did the ending as well. Nice way to ease it back down. The kick is really the only thing that stands out to me, and it isn't a very big deal. Minor really. Great Job!

Thanks Maschneid. I agree with the kick as well, like I said above I was wavering over the level but decided on BIG. The bigger the better right?? Well that's what my wife says

[JoshERTW]

Cool vibe man, the preamble really sets it up. Some very minor things, some very much bordering on subjective:

- The backing vocals in the "bridge" part seem a little loud
- That epic bass tone needs to play a more prominent role - maybe carve a bit of low end outta the backing vox or something to let it suck up the bandwidth it deserves
- Bring down that kick a little bit - will help achieve the second point too
- A couple of places the sustain on time based effect/echo on the guitar seem to be slightly out of step as they trail off, other places (intro comes to mind) they fit perfectly - might be an issue with the track where you'd need to actually time stretch it or automate your delay/time parameter on the effect or something.
(Note: Was it chorus? for a guitar player I'm horrible at figuring out which is which... was always too poor to afford pedals and now that I'm a mixer I've finally started using them through my DAW hehe)

Certainly no dealbreakers here. Solid work.

[willj]

How did they get in there.

I slipped them in on ya. (rolls eyes)

I guess I blew it

You didnt blow anything!....ok well lemmy think about that statement for a min...Ok you definitely did not blow the mix. Its my job to keep you on your toes bud. im not gonna pay for a mix with clicks in it, but i got a grande and a half that says your next mix doesnt have any clicks in it.

For the record i said clicks and pops, but i think im just used to using those two words together. they were just clicks. sorry if you were looking for something that doesnt exist.

can't your sexy ears point them out to me

i honestly didnt log it all in on a tracking sheet. i figured if i pointed out one you wouldnt care about the other six of them ( Kidding probably just one more two at the absolute most) I'll let you work on finding them for a while. if youre still turning mixes in with clicks you need the practice if you dont hear anything yeah man i'll search it out...

hell ya, I would pay to go to a show and feel the firebombs, lazers, fireworks, flares,*

i know. i pictured you on lead guitar missing a tooth of course - again nicely done on the mix end of things my brutha

[bobbybovine]

Cool vibe man, the preamble really sets it up. Some very minor things, some very much bordering on subjective:

- The backing vocals in the "bridge" part seem a little loud
- That epic bass tone needs to play a more prominent role - maybe carve a bit of low end outta the backing vox or something to let it suck up the bandwidth it deserves
- Bring down that kick a little bit - will help achieve the second point too
- A couple of places the sustain on time based effect/echo on the guitar seem to be slightly out of step as they trail off, other places (intro comes to mind) they fit perfectly - might be an issue with the track where you'd need to actually time stretch it or automate your delay/time parameter on the effect or something.
(Note: Was it chorus? for a guitar player I'm horrible at figuring out which is which... was always too poor to afford pedals and now that I'm a mixer I've finally started using them through my DAW hehe)

Certainly no dealbreakers here. Solid work.

Thanks for the comments man. I have to learn to let the mix sit for a day or 2 before submitting. I get excited and impatient and that definitely works against me. I noticed that the delay on the clean guitars wen't too long, I should have put a gate on the fx side chained from the guitar track, that would have stopped it when it was supposed to. The "echo" on the clean was only a stereo delay. In the bridge I high and low passed the eq aggressively across the board and sent the guitars to an fx with a flanger, chorus and the delay and automated it progressively to build up to the climax. The one thing I really liked is I automated the send of the vocal there on the word "Floor" to the flanger fx as well as automating the eq back to flat and it gives it a cool spatial effect from right to left and feels like it is going over your head. No one noticed it yet

i honestly didnt log it all in on a tracking sheet. i figured if i pointed out one you wouldnt care about the other six of them ( Kidding probably just one more two at the absolute most) I'll let you work on finding them for a while. if youre still turning mixes in with clicks you need the practice if you dont hear anything yeah man i'll search it out...

See that's what I like about ya. Making me do the work like a good mentor/teacher.

i know. i pictured you on lead guitar missing a tooth of course - again nicely done on the mix end of things my brutha

If I was a guitar player I would be dead sexy. I got the facial expression down pat. Too bad I look like a retard when I play drums, but at least I am not as twitchy as Lars

[willj]

Too bad I look like a retard when I play drums

hey, so you gats a great orgasm face! thats no fault of yours. Kieth Moon would be proud.

[fHumble fHingaz]

The guitars I have to say I am not noticing what you hear. Do you think it is a result of high passing too aggressively or is it more in the crunch part of the tone?

Hmmm... On listening again, I don't think it is too much high passing, I think it might be just a little too scooped in the 800-2k region, where all the "guts" are.... or it could that the guitars are just very low in actual level..., which may have been your intention

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Since listening to my own mix with a faster tempo,it really makes it sound ever slower than what it really is,it sucks.

As good as the kick sounds.The kick seems abit dominant for the mix,even though it is a very attention demanding style of kick,especially with how it is in the mix,level wise.I guess it comes down to "whats your flavor",that's my opinion anyhow

Your mix is pretty good with some cool ideas that you've done well.I like how you've made it build up,then build up again after the chorus has finished,then the same like of idea with the bridge/ending.

Good take on the song!

Cheers

[bobbybovine]

Since listening to my own mix with a faster tempo,it really makes it sound ever slower than what it really is,it sucks.

As good as the kick sounds.The kick seems abit dominant for the mix,even though it is a very attention demanding style of kick,especially with how it is in the mix,level wise.I guess it comes down to "whats your flavor",that's my opinion anyhow

Your mix is pretty good with some cool ideas that you've done well.I like how you've made it build up,then build up again after the chorus has finished,then the same like of idea with the bridge/ending.

Good take on the song!

Cheers

Thanks BBBW! I knew I was going to get comments on that kick

[bobbybovine]

Hmmm... On listening again, I don't think it is too much high passing, I think it might be just a little too scooped in the 800-2k region, where all the "guts" are.... or it could that the guitars are just very low in actual level..., which may have been your intention

Are you talking distorted guitars pre-bridge or after bridge? The low distorted guitars was totally intentional in the pre-bridge section, and having them cranked was also intentional after bridge. I did find that the after bridge guitars I think guitar 3 and 4 were really dark, I did eq them a bit but not much and I slid them kind of under guitars 1 and 2. I wonder if that is what you are saying. I didn't scoop anything I wonder if that is just how the tracks interacted with each other?

[fHumble fHingaz]

Are you talking distorted guitars pre-bridge or after bridge?

Yeah, I was talking pre-bridge... The bridge guitars sounded awesome!

The low distorted guitars was totally intentional in the pre-bridge section, and having them cranked was also intentional after bridge. I did find that the after bridge guitars I think guitar 3 and 4 were really dark, I did eq them a bit but not much and I slid them kind of under guitars 1 and 2. I wonder if that is what you are saying. I didn't scoop anything I wonder if that is just how the tracks interacted with each other?

Could be just the fact that you kept the pre-bridge guitars really low in the mix.

[bobbybovine]

Yeah, I was talking pre-bridge... The bridge guitars sounded awesome!

Thanks

Could be just the fact that you kept the pre-bridge guitars really low in the mix.

Ok cool. Thanks for your ears.

[Lurchtheicefist]

Great mix! Like your idea for this and I definitely see where your vision was. Vocals are very clear sounding but I could even see them being a little more wet. Bass sounds a little scooped for my tastes, I think. Distorted guitars can definitely come up in the chorus. But I love the delay on your clean guitars, even if it's in your face. Love how you approached the bridge and how it comes back in kicking ass during the second half.

[bobbybovine]

Great mix! Like your idea for this and I definitely see where your vision was. Vocals are very clear sounding but I could even see them being a little more wet. Bass sounds a little scooped for my tastes, I think. Distorted guitars can definitely come up in the chorus. But I love the delay on your clean guitars, even if it's in your face. Love how you approached the bridge and how it comes back in kicking ass during the second half.

Thanks for the comments Lurch.

[Patrich]

this is a BIG mix and you have taken it in a different direction than what i had in mind. but i like it. the drums are huge and powerful, worthy of any grand arena concert. i also like what you've done with the vocals, clear and present.
the bass sounds is really growlingdown under, i can hear it well in the verses, but it tends to dissappear in other sections of the song which is a pity since the sound you managed to produce is among the best i have heard! not sure if the remedy is more compression, automation, or maybe even automated compression.... really good work! this mix is made for LOUD listening!!

[bobbybovine]

this is a BIG mix and you have taken it in a different direction than what i had in mind. but i like it. the drums are huge and powerful, worthy of any grand arena concert. i also like what you've done with the vocals, clear and present.
the bass sounds is really growlingdown under, i can hear it well in the verses, but it tends to dissappear in other sections of the song which is a pity since the sound you managed to produce is among the best i have heard! not sure if the remedy is more compression, automation, or maybe even automated compression.... really good work! this mix is made for LOUD listening!!

Thanks for the comments Patrich. There are a couple things, the bass being one of them, that I wrestled to get into shape. I agree some notes pop out and I knew that when I submitted but I was drawing a blank as to what to do. Automation or a multi band compressor would have probably done the trick but sometime you just can't see the solution even when it is right in front of your face. I initially had this mix even louder but backed off the limiters because I felt I was pushing it a bit too much.

[Jeronimo Mora]

Nice mix !

I'm with fH, there seems to be a hole somewhere in your spectrum. And willj hit the nail on the head with the kick drum. It is just ever so slightly too loud. I would have liked more guitar as well. I though the delay on the clean guitar was a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle too much. Love the creative elements.

Great job !