ChronoWulf - Mask - Hated Love

[ChronoWulf]

I tried my best to improve the clarity and the compression of this one based on the feedback I got from the May mix. The feedback here is great - hopefully I've I've used it to good effect. I tried to bring the drums out without making it too in-your-face And tried to bring the vocals to front. Funnily enough I didn't like the vocals at first but after working with them a bit I was pretty impressed - So I had some fun with them with effects etc. I tried to bring the guitars to the front where appropriate and pacify them where necessary - there was one seriously distorted track that sounded great in some places and like noise in others - so that was a bit of a challenge to get that right - I think I could have prolly done better by taking it out in some place as I heard in another mix. Overall I'm pretty pleased with how it came out. Bring on the comments.
Cheers

[willj]

Hey man! i like what im hearing. some nice choice of sounds goin on. i think the big thing is that the vocals are too dominant. They are causing your file to lose some volume because they are about the only thing being handled by the limiter. Its also causing the vocals and the instruments to sound like two seperate entities. You have the vocals -here- and then you have everything else. Thats a really good thing with the vox tucked into the mix, but they sound more like theyve been heaped on top of a group of instruments.

Forgetting about the vox for a second - i think the instruments sound good. They sound well mixed and seem to complement each other. The solo section sounds a little bit off kilter because the clean guitar seems to take center stage with a sound that isnt really a "moneymaker" but outside of the solo section everything feels pretty good to me and fits together nicely.

Biggest thing is rolling the vox back some. That alone puts this mix in the range of the top mixes. Nice work!

[fHumble fHingaz]

I tried my best to improve the clarity and the compression of this one based on the feedback I got from the May mix.

You definitely have achieved your goal, because your mix sounds very clear & has good separation of the elements.

The vocals are jumping out a bit - getting vocals at just the right level is tricky - I try to think of the vocals as just "surfing" above the "waves" of the music - "laying down" rather than "standing up". Usually, if you have to have the vocals loud enough to trigger the master limiter to duck the music, it's a good indication that the vocals need more stringent automation/compression to level them out. I often like to use two compressors in series on the vocal - One set to limiting with a high threshold (like an 1176 style model) to shave the big peaks by a few dB, & another set with a much more gentle ratio but a lower threshold, to bring up the lower-level details in the track. That approach, combined with some automation to deal with the varying dynamics of the different sections of the song, seems to be the key to getting the vocals to "surf" just right.

Once you get the vocals working like that, you'll find there is more room for the other mix elements to create greater impact & "punch".

Great to hear that you're finding the Slate Cup helpful in improving your skills - Nicely done!

[Jjsodarock]

Yo Chrono,
I think the instruments sound good. They sound well mixed and seem to complement each other. They sound the best to me in the 2nd half, after the solo. The vocals is where I'm hearing some issues. They are a bit to up front. That may be remidyed
by turning them down, Turning up everything else. Or saying f*** it that'is the way I like it aha, aha... Somtimes a bit more verb on the vocal bus can give them a softer, more tucked in feel. Good Job, Jojo

[danmanisa]

Very smooth mix Chrono,
There is a real creaminess about your production here. Everything seems to fit nicely together, especially the vocals. I absolutely love the delayed backing vocals. That works really well, although I would have lost the last one as it does not fit nicely with the chorus change. The guitars take a back seat which works well. The harmonies, to me, are not completely 'tight' in the chorus, as the high, slightly panned left vocal seems to come in over the top of the main vocal a bit too much. It's not bad, just not sure if I would personally do it that way.

Great experimentation in the bridge. It really needs something different there and you have delivered it nicely. The clean guitar needs something in that build up section, as the average performance is exposed here. I would look to use your creative nous on that too to help it flow and fit a little better.
Overall, everything flows nicely here, and it really feels like it all belongs. Nothing really stood out, with only a few balancing bits that are really more personal preference than 'issues". Nice work!

[TopBobSecret]

Chronowulf,
I think you did a bang up job.
Snare seeming a bit low in places. I'm liking the vocal mix. It didn't seem too loud to me.
Good separation and balance of sound.
Good luck!-TopBob

[kakeux]

Hi,

The mix is really enjoyable from a balance point of view and the effect brought in are working fine for me.

I don't know how to write this without sounding harsh, but my main concern with your mix is that is has not much power. Another mastering approach would have maybe help. This absolutely not mean your mix is not nice to listen to, but it sounds flatter than the best ones I heard here.

Those kind of feeling are hard to describe for me, so if you want some more explanation I will definitely try to give you more so that you can understand me better.

Good work!

[ChronoWulf]

Thanks so much everyone for the kind words and the critiques!

yeah willj - the clean guitar could have used some work considering I brought it out like that - I think there were probably easy to fix timing issues in there that I should have cleaned up and changing the sound a little might have also helped. It's funny I fussed with that vox volume so many times - it kept feeling like it was getting lost in there so I would bump it up slightly - listening now I see I could have pulled it back some

Thanks for the tip fHumble - I'll keep an eye out for the needle on the master bus compressor for the vocals next time and adjust accordingly. I actually do have it double compressed but it's the first time that I've done that so its probably not quite right. I'm using Reason so I used their ssl emulated compressor first to catch the peaks then a SoftTube FET to level it out.

Thanks Jjsodarock I kinda did that by the end - cuz I did like it and also because I was afraid I would ruin it with too much listening and fiddling.

danmanisa - yeah that echo - I loved it some places - others not so much - but when I took it off the end phrase completely, It sounded like it was missing to me, so I tried to being the level down some so it wouldn't be as obvious. I'm wondering now if I missed the boat by doing that - that missing feeling might have been a good precursor to when the chorus comes in. Yeah the level on that one is probably too hot - I brought it down a couple times but not enough probably. With all the fiddling I'd been doing with the vocal volume etc - I should have probably listened to it more keenly on fresh ears.

TopBobSecret - I could have probably done a bit more automation on the snare track volume - I focused the volume during the builds - and forgot about it everywhere else once they'd been mixed.

kakeux - I didn't actually do any mastering, I dont know enough about it i think and the mix always seems to sound worse when I try presets. So I'm guessing you mean flat in terms of punchiness or do you mean reduced dynamic range or something else?

Again - Thanks everyone, the feedback is really helpful.

[kakeux]

kakeux - I didn't actually do any mastering, I dont know enough about it i think and the mix always seems to sound worse when I try presets. So I'm guessing you mean flat in terms of punchiness or do you mean reduced dynamic range or something else?

Yes I was refering to the punchiness. Some good use of compressor or tape simulator on the master buss could add some punch to a mix and at the same time gluing it. When I said mastering issue, I was talking about this, so no mastering is also a part of it. Even without going really far in the mastering process, using a compressor or certain limiter on the master buss is often a good idea. Some really add something, sort of sound signature. Same as master buss EQing, some EQs are really good in adding something UAD massive passive EQ is a good example.

[Magnolius]

Nice vocals on this mix. To me the vocals are dominating the mix too much. Just adjusting the balance between vocals and the band would help I think. The bridge is bold but some of the harmonies sounds a bit disharmonic to me. Also as I did with my march mix the overall volume is a little low. But that's a minor point IMO.

[dudermn]

I concur. The vocals dominate the mix.

[JoshERTW]

Nice work man,

Fhumble's surfing analogy is a great way to think about this - his True Blue shining through I guess

Set your compression and then automate your fader(s) - that almost always does the trick for me. I also like to compress is just the way he described, smack a bunch of dB off with an 1176 style compressor then massage up the other parts with something less intense on the other side. Then just automate the fader (or automate the other faders up and down around the vocal - I usually end up at some combination of the two)

Other than that this sounds pretty solid, though I'd say the guitar solo could use a little more "epicness" - sounds a bit honky whereas it seems better suited to be a huge distorted screaming beast of a thing.

Good show

[redworks]

an enjoyable mix the first time through i just listened and enjoyed. the repeat of the vocals in verse 2 are a stroke of genius both times i listened through they sent chills up my spine and the fact that you did it just in that part makes it even better. the use of the ahh's to create ambiance in the bridge was great as well. i guess what i am saying is that your sense of arrangement and creative touches were really good. now the technical side. two things i am trying and so far found helpful are 1. mix into my "mastering" setup. i set up ozone on the 2buss and that way when i make decisions i can hear the end result and as i start to push things i can hear how it affects the final compression of the mix. 2. turning the volume way down and listening. i want to hear the vocals over everything else but i also don't want that to happen too early as i turn down the volume because that indicates to big of a separation.

[ChronoWulf]

Thanks redworks, I really appreciate it, I was really happy when it the idea for those vocals came to me and then actually worked the way I wanted it to for the most part. I'll have to try that checking to the vox/instrument mix at really low volumes see if I can figure out exactly where they need to be. Do you start with a preset in Ozone then tweak from there? Not sure if I understand the 2buss deal - are you mixing directly through your mastering plugin, or do you turn it on and off to check periodically?

Thanks JoshERTW - I def see where I missed an opportunity with that guitar.

yeah dudermn, seems to be the general consensus.

Thanks Magnolius - I ran some of the vocals through Neptune to tidy them up -I'm maybe if they were less dominant - it might sound more natural.

kakeux - I'll try some of this the next mix for sure - see if I can get something decent sounding. And Nice song btw . Once I got into it, it was really a pleasure to mix it.

[wireman957]

Hey, Chrono - nice job on this. Everything is really "smooth" and controlled. I think really the only thing holding your mix back is the vocal balance. Your mix is pretty heavy in the 300-1k range, which is mostly coming from the vox, I think. Maybe a wide scoop in the middle of that frequency range on your vocal buss would have helped considerably. That would have opened up that range for the guitars a little and given the impression that the vocals were more inside the mix. Side-chaining a compressor on your guitar bus using the vocals as the input key would also allow you to turn the vocals down and still keep riding slightly on top of the instruments.

Nonetheless, a very nice mix - easy to listen to, that's for sure! Great job!

[dudermn]

ya the mix sounds great.
The bass seems to be stereo :/ but I do that all the time

That right side clean guitar is kinda to twangy,, seems you nailed the sound them pushed to make sure it don't murk up.
Ever since I turned the ahs into zombie moans....the ahs dont' work well for me.

At the end bridge the contrast between the mix and lead clean d.i. guitar is huge. The Guitar hops out of the mix.

[jhkillam]

The rhythm guitar seems like it needs more meat. Maybe it's been high passed too aggressively or you could reduce some of the top end then raise the volume. The delay in the second verse is cool except the last phrases before the part repeats don't quite sit right for me. The Ahhhs carrying past the singing in the bridge also felt a bit unusual. I think having a bit more room on the snare would be a nice finishing touch to this one.*

[Jeronimo Mora]

Nice mix

The drum tones are a bit stale. The guitars in general (distorted) could come up by like 3-4 db. The clean guitars could come up like 2. The drums don't really stand out much. Some parallel compression on the snare, kick, and set would have really gotten the excitement up and created some vibe. The repeat was a good idea, but because of the original phrase was recorded, it didn't execute as well as it could have. The round the OOOOOOOOOOHs do is a bit distracting. Especially because they're panned so hard.

Good mix !