BillyBoBBizWorth's Love to Hate

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Hey guys,here to submit my entry for this month,thought id try and get in abit earlier this time.

Wasn't to sure whether this track sounded better dry,with a little bit of reverb,or wet,obviously my take on it will show you what direction i decided to go with.

Anyways,here's my mix.

Cheers

[wireman957]

Man, that's really cool! You took exactly the opposite approach from me, but it's really great! You handled the vox well - made a nice statement with the verse/chorus EQ changes. I listened to the first verse and was just waiting for the full spectrum vox to kick in and they did! Perfect!! The only thing that made my little head turn sideways (like a dog going "huh?") was the part after about 2:08 when the ghostly stuff starts coming in and the guitar parts kinda sound like they're running ove each other up to about 2:30. Loved your ending, though. Cracked my ass up (in a great way - that was fun!). Awesome!

Good job - you created a vibe and kept it all the way through! That's something I have to continually work on.

[kakeux]

So cool again another mix!!!

That is definitely taking the song in a different landscape. But I like it.

Everything sounds raw and controlled (I don't know if it means anything, sorry ).

Very interesting take, really.

What a bold bridge, killer! I would have not stopped so abruptly the "detuned sound". It creates a sudden silence that only last for 4-5 sec.

I feel like the hi-mid and high start to hurt a bit, that's about the only bad point for me. Sure it's an important one. Controlling the upper freq would have make it a killer. Oh yeah, maybe some more general lows could be good too, well don't know. The bridge part is a good example of what I'm talking about.

Really interesting, too bad for the apparent brightness.

Cheers!

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

The only thing that made my little head turn sideways (like a dog going "huh?") was the part after about 2:08 when the ghostly stuff starts coming in and the guitar parts kinda sound like they're running ove each other up to about 2:30.

Yer that part was a little different,kinda made me look abit clueless when i heard it originally,that's probably what i liked about it,i tryed to separate them sounds from the original distortion guitar track as much as possible,while still making it sound part of the track,i guess.
I probably could of handled it abit better,but the result sound is what i was aiming for,i think?

I actually considered taking that away,and when i did i liked it better with it,so i made it happen.

What a bold bridge, killer! I would have not stopped so abruptly the "detuned sound". It creates a sudden silence that only last for 4-5 sec.

I thought someone would mention that.The reason that is there is because when i was working on the "detuned guitar tracks" i faded out the end section,then reversed it,so it became a reversed fade in,which you hear happening just before the last verse.

I did want to have a stab at fixing that,but didn't really figure out how and moved on,didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time.
Maybe i could,or should have,added another sound in to fill that space of time to avoid having that silence there,either way it didn't happen and it didn't appeal to me as a serious problem.

I feel like the hi-mid and high start to hurt a bit, that's about the only bad point for me. Sure it's an important one. Controlling the upper freq would have make it a killer. Oh yeah, maybe some more general lows could be good too, well don't know. The bridge part is a good example of what I'm talking about.

I agree,i could of controlled some of the frequencies abit better,still learning a ton load of stuff,i think i need to take a step back when it comes to EQ'ing and properly analyze what im doing.

Loved your ending, though. Cracked my ass up (in a great way - that was fun!). Awesome!

Haha,yer i thought that was pretty cool too,do you know what it is,or sounds similar to?

When i came across that sound i made with the tail of the track,it sounds very much like Super Mario to me,when you die on the game,that's the kind of sound that you hear,im pretty sure.

Thanks for listening.

Cheers

[Magnolius]

This was a new one! I love the intro, sounds great!

But what's with the tempo? The key is the same but the tempo is up from 150 bpm to 165... That's a BOLD mixing decision...

On my speakers the mix sounds a bit thin, with lots of mid and a little weak in the bottom end.

There are many things I liked in this one, the intro, the bridge is also really good. Many creative solutions that add interest to the song!

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

But what's with the tempo? The key is the same but the tempo is up from 150 bpm to 165... That's a BOLD mixing decision...

On my speakers the mix sounds a bit thin, with lots of mid and a little weak in the bottom end.

Your right,i did actually push up the tempo by about 12 BPM's,i just tryed it whilst i was mixing and i liked it and decided to go with it,but yer it is abit of a bold choice i guess.

I would tend to agree with you on this as well actually,seems to be lacking some low end compared to the original tracks.

Cheers

[Stan_Halen]

A very interesting mix indeed! I like what you did with the intro and verse vocals and reverb, though as said before it tends to focus in the high-mids. The chorus seems to have a better frequency balance on vocals and instruments. The end of the bridge "guitar drop" was a cool idea, but does kind of get jumbled together at the tail end. The end of the song was fun too.

On that tempo increase, did you speed up the whole song which would tune everything up in pitch? It kind of sound like that. I think it's possible to do time-compression and not change the pitch, but on a whole song that is pretty intense processing. The tempo increase could help overcome a couple of sections that tend to "drag" and the beat wanders - like right after the bridge. I didn't notice the drag parts in your mix as much as mine and others so that might be a good thing. On the other hand, if speeding it up shifted all your track pitches up a half-step or so that might have contributed to the high-mid buildup in the intro/verse sections?

[LazyE]

like the way you hd back n the drums at the beginning, nice touch!
the guitar tone for me is a tad fuzzy but thas persnal preferance, the bass is nice on this, lots of mixes(mine included) backed the bass off on this one more, nice to hear it
like the lo fi beatles ect bridge vocals.
the snare seems a little too bright and pop sounding especially at the bridge section.
like the way youve managed to make the vocals sound more like a duet rather than backing vocals, especially on the last verse, a bold move that seems to have worked!
think that this is a great origional mix!
nice job dude

[Patrich]

wow...different, and different i like. a lot of creative decisions where i would have taken another path, but that makes it more fun to listen to. actually listening now for the third time. things i like; the low-cut-hi-cut vox, i was afraid it would wear on me but you alter it nicely with the full range vox. cool.
i think the higher tempo works, and i especially like the way the song works it way out of the bridge to final chorus sections.
things i don't like too much; the mix is a bit spikey in the upper mids and at the same time slightly lacking some beef in the lows. and the guitars are a little bit too prominent during the bridge section in my opinion. this is however something one would easily correct in any universe outside the Slate Digital Cup, but here we are given no second chances
and ....coool ending.
ps: if you get the tme; please share your technique for the tempo change. there are a number of ways of doing it and it would be interesting to hear yours.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

On that tempo increase, did you speed up the whole song which would tune everything up in pitch? It kind of sound like that.

Yes,your correct,i did increase the tempo of the whole track by around 12 BPM's which in turn should increase the pitch,i didn't really hear any majorly drastic changes in the tone though.

Actually,even when i increased the BPM's by 30-40,i didnt notice any major pitch and/or tone changes,it was really subtle.

On the other hand, if speeding it up shifted all your track pitches up a half-step or so that might have contributed to the high-mid buildup in the intro/verse sections?

Your probably right there,even though i think some of the EQ'ing i did may have caused that,but the tempo change just made it more prominent.

like the way youve managed to make the vocals sound more like a duet rather than backing vocals, especially on the last verse, a bold move that seems to have worked!

I liked that myself,didn't know if anyone was going to notice it,or if it would work for others.

ps: if you get the tme; please share your technique for the tempo change. there are a number of ways of doing it and it would be interesting to hear yours.

Sure,there's no big process for it.I simply raised the BPM's by 12 on my DAW when i was mixing,i didn't do anything else related to the tempo.

Thanks for the comments guys!

Cheers

[fHumble fHingaz]

Oh yeah... Lots of creative stuff going on here! Speeding it up was a very bold move - I think it works pretty well, though. The bridge is just MENTAL - again, the frenzy of discord works well in building to peak.

In the 2nd verse & the bridge, I found the aggressive high mids in both the dirty guitar & lead vocal really stacked up & became fatiguing quite quickly... Frequency-wise, there is probably only room for one really aggressive element in that range - perhaps you could have dipped the high mids out of the guitar so the frequencies didn't accumulate so much as to unbalance the mix.

Overall though, lots of creative thought & attitude - keep it up!

[redworks]

great. bold decisions with a lot of intensity. i do find though if you are going to put so much distortion and edge that you need to be careful with the high mids and the highs. when they get edgey they can be painful. there is a little of that going on in your mix. knock a little off there and i would be feeling it. i enjoyed the speed nothing to crazy but noticeable. digging the edge that you have added to the vocals. using different amounts really adds to the movement of the song.

[willj]

(like a dog going "huh?") Lol! i always thought they were saying, " What in THEE fuck has Willj been shooting in his arm?? Stupid pills?" <<< But thats just me. i could be wrong

Love the hi passed vox. They seemed a little bit harsh at the beginning but not as much later in the song. Nice idea in any case.

Speeding the track up was a nice idea as well. You made it work for sure.

Tonally, it sounds like you can do a little better with your EQ and compression. you can get some more crack out of that snare with a 12 or 20 millisecond attack time, and some more boooom out of that kick drum. they both sound pretty good, im just yearning for a bit of that sustain that compression brings to the table.

EQ- experiment as boldly as you do with your creative mixing techniques and you'll get a better feel for it in less time.
Any time i use a new tool, i WAY over use it so i can hear what its doing right away. I wont put 2 db of gain reduction on a new compressor and sit and try to decide whether or not its working. I start by hammer the hell out of it. No matter what tool it is.

Bass guitar - hi pass to 80hz Low pass to 5k wide band pass boost of 2db at 800hz and a wide band pass boost of 1 db at 400hz. might be something to start with next month or on a remix here or whatever you practice with. From there alter it how you like, but almost all of my mixes have the bass hi passed to 80hz.


Ive got you as another one making steady improvements every month, and as far as the mix itself goes, while excluding any creative choices, i think is the best one youve done yet. Nice work man. Sounds like its coming together for ya.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

In the 2nd verse & the bridge, I found the aggressive high mids in both the dirty guitar & lead vocal really stacked up & became fatiguing quite quickly... Frequency-wise, there is probably only room for one really aggressive element in that range - perhaps you could have dipped the high mids out of the guitar so the frequencies didn't accumulate so much as to unbalance the mix.

i do find though if you are going to put so much distortion and edge that you need to be careful with the high mids and the highs. when they get edgey they can be painful.

I do notice that myself now,definitely something im going to be focusing on with my future mixes.

Tonally, it sounds like you can do a little better with your EQ and compression.

I agree,i agree with almost everything everyone has said actually,im getting some EQ practice right now with some tracks and hope to come back next month with some better decisions made.

Thanks for all the comments guys,i really appreciate it.

Cheers

[willj]

I agree,i agree with almost everything everyone has said actually,im getting some EQ practice right now with some tracks and hope to come back next month with some better decisions made.

I hope ya do too man. hell, even if you just get a handle on what it takes to keep the guitars and vocals out of each others way that would be a huge start. Not saying thats whats wrong here, guess im just saying you dont have to figure it all out at once. BTR can be great for this kind of feedback.

[bobbybovine]

Hey there BBBW! I like your idea of the low and high passed 1st verse, then coming into chorus fully. I do find your guitar tone a bit scratchy but it does kinda work for the grungy feel you have here. When the 2nd vers kicks in and the vox is high and low passed again it doesn't seem to fit all that well, it sounds too low yet if you went any lower it would be too mid range heavy and sharp on the ears, which is how the vox sound to me. Woahhh man that swell in the bridgeis wild. I like it but you really should have stopped it right at the crescendo. Carrying it on past that really clutters up the mix and makes it hard to focus on any one thing. Good mix, I just think you need to control those effects a bit more.

[dudermn]

I can see why this is rated at 3 stars...
Though that guitar tone is pretty sweet

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I can see why this is rated at 3 stars...

Ouch,so tell me why this is rated at 3 stars? why isn't it a 5 star mix?

I don't understand what im meant to take from your post,am i meant to take anything from it? Am i even meant to respond to it,did you actually want me to reply to it?

I feel like ive been insulted and complimented at the same time,with-in two sentences...

I appreciate your listen and wouldn't mind hearing some of your mixes.

[dudermn]

Well when you listen to everyones mixes compared to yours ?
The thermy for example isn't present, the bass is muddy, but well driven.
The snare doesn't cut well, and fits really ... weird to me.
But I gave you 4 stars As I like that the mix isn't compressed, but don't like the attention to detail element witch is kinda lacking.
I spend alot of time (when I really want too) just making sure every sylibal is at the right volume for the vocal performance for example.

http://soundcloud.com/gabi-ghita
I tried to capture something more like Tom Waits on these , most of the recordings are live recordings.. D.I.ed everything, miced the room arranged the players in the right places and hit record. Than edited the crum out of some, others let fly. Out west could've used some more open vocals, but than the guitars wouldn't sound so bad ass (especially on those big open chords). Ya acoustic chitara sounds great ran through guitar pro 4
Everything was done in one session, and each song is an individual

Ya the songs with a delayed lead is another story.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Well when you listen to everyones mixes compared to yours ?

Well,yer,but there's quite a few 3 star mixes and i am a amateur mixer.

The thermy for example isn't present, the bass is muddy, but well driven.

I dont exactly know what you mean by "thermy"? Wheres the mud in the bass tracks?

The snare doesn't cut well, and fits really ... weird to me.

Why's that?

As I like that the mix isn't compressed, but don't like the attention to detail element witch is kinda lacking.

Ill agree that it could of been alot better and i didn't spend as much time as i wanted to on it,im getting there though.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers

[killingpingu]

BillyBob,

Nothing wrong with your thermy mate.... wish my thermy was as good as yours.

I think I even have thermy envy.

[JoshERTW]

I like the guitar intro, I'm planning to go that route as well.

Did you speed the song up a bit? If not, whatever you did to get this vibe, it feels like its a higher tempo than some of the others. I like it. The dissonant stuff in the bridge is kind of neat too, but I think it needs a bit of tweaking - really like the idea though, and it certainly has some potential.

The main criticism I have is that there's some noteworthy tonal/EQ stuff that needs cleaning up, mainly in the low end - you need to high pass everything to some degree, otherwise you get sort of an "underwater" sound thing happening which holds your mix back - the clarity and punch both suffer. There may also be some 300-400hz stuff that needs to be dipped a little bit on some instruments (bass almost as a rule)

Here's some "top of my head" frequencies I usually high pass at as a start, and then push it up until the sound changes, then sort of scale it back till the change isn't noticeable anymore:

Toms: 50
Snare: 120
Kick: 30
Guitars: 120
Bass: 50
OH's/Hats: 200
Vocals: 100-300 (depends on singer)

You can probably find a better list elsewhere on the forums/interwebz, but yeah, make that a standard processing thing on every mix you do, and you will be getting punchier, clearer mixes almost immediately.

[fHumble fHingaz]

I dont exactly know what you mean by "thermy"?

I think he means "w@rm"

[dudermn]

well first off, I turn the volume down when listening.
Here's an A B of the weird snare herd by my ears on my.... headphones.

You can't figure out what thermy means ??
Therimin-jthermy
Guitar-jaxe
Drums- butoi (romanian for barrels).
piano/synth- keys
horns- anything blown (phun intentional).
etc- other instruments

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

well first off, I turn the volume down when listening.
Here's an A B of the weird snare herd by my ears on my.... headphones.

Yer i do that myself.With that snare sample you provided,that sounds like a snare with a kick drum under it to me,on my system anyways.I didn't do anything like that to my snare track.Although i do hear the similarity with that snare and the snare on my mix.Obviously you don't like the snare,point taken.

You can't figure out what thermy means ??
Therimin-jthermy
Guitar-jaxe
Drums- butoi (romanian for barrels).
piano/synth- keys
horns- anything blown (phun intentional).
etc- other instruments

Well it could of meant anything.I don't know all these slang words,still learning.I would of clicked on if you just said "Theremin".

Cheers