JoshERTW - Accidental Death & Dismemberment

[JoshERTW]

What a month it's been - Wasn't sure I'd get a mix done this month but here I am haha!

Also, roughly 50% of this mix was completed with one hand (not in that way), as the other was rocking a baby to sleep at all hours of the night - hopefully this is worth extra points

I didn't really go for any specific references, but I've been listening to a lot of Black Keys and Stone Temple pilots this week, so I think some of that bled through - I'm also a huge Neil Young fan so I didn't feel too bad doing this one without a safety net, and the song seemed to cry for letting the tracks speak for themselves without a lot of processing - no pitch correct, very few time based effects except a blend reverb, etc.\.

I kind of went for a bit of a gritty "small-space-live-jam" feel, as this tune reminds me of my younger days and jams in a smoke and booze filled wood shop turned rehearsal space - there's some little things I added/didn't take out on purpose (i.e. amp noise/hiss) cause to me this song feels like it's supposed to be a bit rough around the edges.

Awesome song, glad I was able to find some time to mix it

[samkshaw]

Oooo... good mix! Black Keys is a great reference listen for this one, I think. Not quite as loud as most of the rest of the field (I assume by deliberate choice.) I noticed your mix last month was one of the "less loud" mixes, too. I think it could stand to be pumped up a LITTLE bit, even if you want to go for a less-squashed sound overall. The kick is a bit "clicky" for my taste -- I think on this kind of tune I'm more into a rounder, "thuddy-er" kick. I assume you boosted up high (4-5kHz?) on it, but I think you might have over done it. It's not so noticeable in the denser parts of the song (where of course it does help the kick cut through,) but in the exposed sections I think it is too much. The snare is a little thin sounding, but I thought trying to get that track to work was a real pain, generally! I like the way the tambourine sits (there's a random comment for you, but true.) The guitars under the vocal section of the ending sound a little thin/weak to me. In fact, I have this general criticism throughout. They definitely leave room for the vocal, though. I really dig the bass tone, and the balances are all really good. Nice work!

[samkshaw]

Oh -- and congrats on being a new dad! I am uncle to two 2-month-olds (one by my brother and one by my sister) -- I love them but I'm happy not to be responsible for them -- good for you!

[JoshERTW]

Not quite as loud as most of the rest of the field (I assume by deliberate choice.) I noticed your mix last month was one of the "less loud" mixes, too. I think it could stand to be pumped up a LITTLE bit, even if you want to go for a less-squashed sound overall.

You are correct - I did leave it a little quiet on purpose, probably could have pushed it harder in hindsight.

The kick is a bit "clicky" for my taste -- I think on this kind of tune I'm more into a rounder, "thuddy-er" kick. I assume you boosted up high (4-5kHz?) on it, but I think you might have over done it. It's not so noticeable in the denser parts of the song (where of course it does help the kick cut through,) but in the exposed sections I think it is too much. The snare is a little thin sounding, but I thought trying to get that track to work was a real pain, generally!

Good ears, there's a bump at like 4800 or something - I was limited in both my time (was only able to spend about 7 hours on this compared to like 16 last month and 20+ in March) and in my sample choices (i.e. Cubase comes with about 3 stock samples for kick and snare that aren't total garbage) so I had to layer in what I had - I agree it's not the ideal kick or snare sound, but it gets the job done I think. Maybe should have kept more of the natural kick in the mix.

I like the way the tambourine sits (there's a random comment for you, but true.)

I switched the panning when the crash on one side switches to the ride on the other side so you don't lose the tambourine underneath it haha. I spent more time on that track than I should have for what it is, glad someone liked it

The guitars under the vocal section of the ending sound a little thin/weak to me. In fact, I have this general criticism throughout. They definitely leave room for the vocal, though. I really dig the bass tone, and the balances are all really good. Nice work!

Perhaps I elected to let the bass have more of the 100-250 "meat" range than I maybe should have, and automated my guitars down during vocals, perhaps took it a little too far. I was quite happy with the bass tone as well, and I liked the tone on the guitars but agree that they maybe should have had more presence - Had trouble getting them to have the punch I wanted without having to push the bass back in the mix - choices choices...

[samkshaw]

Perhaps I elected to let the bass have more of the 100-250 "meat" range than I maybe should have

No way! Let that baby thump and grunt!!!

(I guess the caveat is that I am a bass player!)

I liked the tone on the guitars but agree that they maybe should have had more presence - Had trouble getting them to have the punch I wanted without having to push the bass back in the mix - choices choices...

Choices, choices -- I feel you on that!

[Jjsodarock]

Josh, Good stuff. I really like the loudness level that you chose, its good. The snare is almost as loud as th vox in the first half, that really bugged me. Overall I dig your work, Jojo

[fHumble fHingaz]

I kind of went for a bit of a gritty "small-space-live-jam" feel, as this tune reminds me of my younger days and jams in a smoke and booze filled wood shop turned rehearsal space - there's some little things I added/didn't take out on purpose (i.e. amp noise/hiss) cause to me this song feels like it's supposed to be a bit rough around the edges.

Great job at capturing that vibe, Josh - you really have the "early reflections" thing happening on the instruments, which gives them a good sense of space. Overall, I like the sounds you've gotten, they are very solid.

Referencing some pro mixes to "calibrate my ears", I notice that yours seems to be a little too prominent in the 2-3k region - I think the main culprit is the rhythm guitar - It had a very strong upper midrange to start with, so it cut through pretty well already. The bottom end of the mix seemed a little thin too, & this might be why the guitar sticks out so much.

I think there might be a slight problem with a "spectral gap" in the overall sound - On the one hand, you have the kick & bass filling out the lows & sub lows somewhat, & on the other hand, the vocals & guitars are concentrated very much in the high mids. What is missing is the "connective tissue" in the low mids - that tricky place where the lows from the guitars & vocals intersect with the top end of the bass & the (potentially muddy & boxy) kick & snare. Although many mixes suffer from the opposite problem (low-mid buildup), if there isn't enough information in this region, you get this "disconnect" occurring, & the end result is ostensibly a "two tier" mix without enough "filling" to bind it together.... Subsequently, the mix looses a lot of it's "power" & "thickness".

I think the solution lies in a few areas: Less aggressive high passing on the guitars & vocals, less "scooping" of the mid frequencies in the drums, & more prominence of the low mids (reaching up into the high mids) on the bass - sometimes some saturation can help to excite those harmonics.

Overall, a cool vision for the mix - nicely done!

[danmanisa]

Ahhh Josh, I was really worried that you would not be getting a mix in on time. Congrats on April's mix (so far....let's see how far you get!!!!! Good luck!!) and also for new bub. I've got #3 on the way in a couple of months (more similarities!).
Ok, onto the mix, typing as I listen. Very chilled verses, with the guitar really pulled back. Works well. What did you do bass wise as it sounds a lot more prominent in the low end and has lost a little of the high end distortion sizzle. That seems to work well in the verses, making it even more chilled, but I personally like the aggressive nature of that high end in the heavier parts. I think it also effects your kick a little too. You have covered it by accentuating the attack of the kick, so both can still be heard. Vocals sound pretty good, but the "you just met me" section of vocals don't quite feel as attached to the mix as your other vocals. I REALLY had trouble with that part. I would imagine it is just a case of adding a hint more, or different ambiance to that sections, as everything else has it due to the slap back tracks. Nice rocking section at the end, the e guitar solo is clear and well balanced. The kick seems to have more weight there too, so I'm not sure if you did something there or if it's the bass and drums working really well in that section with the set up you used.
Not as similar to mine this time around , but still a very good mix.
Get some sleep, keep rocking (with/to) your new bub! Brainwash them early.....

[willj]

Also, roughly 50% of this mix was completed with one hand, as the other was rocking a baby to sleep at all hours of the night

That is a skill no doubt maybe you can offer two services
You managed to get a mix in?!?! i honestly thought i saw a mix up from you already and just couldnt find it.
First month i had to get a link from m24p to see his mix, last month there was some wierdness as well, and then i thought for sure i saw a mix from you, but i guess i was mistaken.

Sounds great man. The major things for me are the drums get a little flat and the guitars could use a 3k cut. Theyre not really even that major, just the first two things id be looking to chase down if i pulled this mix up here. The drums - as i said other times - take a bit of thought, so if youre changing diapers half the night, its gonna be a challenge to find the time.

The guitars just dont need that hi end bite to them to stand out. I like that sound too, so i think i have a pretty good idea what you are envisioning, they are just getting a bit sharp for me at times.

Vox sound good. I like the beef you left on the bass guitar. Its slightly in competition with the kik drum on the low end of the frequency spectrum, but you did such a nice job of giving the bass its own personality that im not bothered by it. Some folks dont hear that, and i just thought you may find it useful if you wanted to get a little more volume out of the mix. Im fine with your RMS levels.

As i expected a pretty solid piece of work.. Congrats and good luck on your mix from last month as well.

[JoshERTW]

That is a skill no doubt maybe you can offer two services
You managed to get a mix in?!?! i honestly thought i saw a mix up from you already and just couldnt find it.
First month i had to get a link from m24p to see his mix, last month there was some wierdness as well, and then i thought for sure i saw a mix from you, but i guess i was mistaken.

I wondered when someone would take the "bate" on that comment and turn it into something filthy

Will - You probably just read one of the threads where I was bitching and moaning about how tired and burnt out I was and how I wouldn't likely get a mix done. Underpromise, overachieve I always say!

The boringness of my drums is completely due to not having time to really hammer them into something perfect, I had to go with the lame samples I had at my disposal and shape them with EQ so they didn't feel totally out of place in this song.

As Fhumble and WillJ have astutely observed, I did put a little bump at 2.5-3k, old habits die hard I guess, whenever I am struggling with the guitars and a deadline is approaching I lunge at that frequency range like a fat kid to cake. That said I only added about 1.5 dB I think.

I probably should have focused on the 400 hz area on the guitars actually, which I did fix EQ wise, but forgot to turn the low's and mid's back up on the Amp sim which was fed by the EQ'd signals... Pretty sure this is why that "spectral gap" exists, as I was pretty heavy handed on that frequency on almost all of the other tracks. My question is, on what instruments does this frequency sound "good?"

Thanks for the kind words everyone - Dan/Will - the Bass was just the DI put thru an amp sim with low's at 5, mids at 7 and hi's at 9, with a veerrrry slight bit of tube OD on it - I actually had more on it right to final mix down but decided it sounded terrible in one or two spots so I scaled it back. I generally throw all my guitar and bass tracks through an amp sim on these contests, even the mic'd tracks, just to see what kind of sounds I can get out of it. The Cubase 6 VST amp rack has some surprisingly good sounding stuff in it.

[willj]

I wondered when someone would take the "bate" on that comment and turn it into something filthy

Oh no my friend. Thats Bovines territory. I would never make those kinds of cracks about your loved ones.

I was thinking more like "Josh's diapers and distortion!" "Recording and childcare"
"We rock your baby to sleep whilst we rock you effing face off!!"

Ive never been one to follow the rules of much of anything so im not sying follow the rules, but look at a guitar EQ pedal or a guitar EQ plugin. What frequencies are we dealing with? Not 2.5 to 3k. Most of the pluginswe use are 1k 2k and 4k. Boss guitar pedals go 1.6k 3.2k 6.4k. < Use those numbers and the ones i listed with the plugs as a starting point ^^^^

Im usually cutting 3k for everything else, and boosting it there for the vox in 80% of my mixes.

[JoshERTW]

Ive never been one to follow the rules of much of anything so im not sying follow the rules, but look at a guitar EQ pedal or a guitar EQ plugin. What frequencies are we dealing with? Not 2.5 to 3k. Most of the pluginswe use are 1k 2k and 4k. Boss guitar pedals go 1.6k 3.2k 6.4k. < Use those numbers and the ones i listed with the plugs as a starting point ^^^^

Im usually cutting 3k for everything else, and boosting it there for the vox in 80% of my mixes.

Interesting - I don't actually own any EQ pedals, as I never did a lot of live playing in my younger days (maybe 40 shows ever?), and haven't really upgraded my rig in years, as I'm pretty happy with the dirty metal/rock tones my Randall + Ibanez give me on their own. I'll write that down in my book of mixing tricks. I have been meaning to grab an EQ pedal and a tube screamer for studio use though.

[wireman957]

Hey Josh - I really debated the loudness thing, too, and decided at the last minute to compromise. didn't even try for -6 'cause I thought it sounded like crap and backed it off to about -7.something...I like everything about this mix with the possible exception of the kick (a tad "clicky" for me) and the guitars seem to lack just a bit of low-mid "beef". Both of those are obviously personal pref things so don't really count against you. You bass tone is great and more low mids in the guitars might have covered some of that up without careful subtractive EQing - which I know you didn't have time for. All things considered, I love what you've gotten here, and you get 5 from me! Nice job!!

[belleym]

Great use of early reflection reverb in your mix. The snare reverb has a lush gated feel to it. There is a good amount of high end definition to your mix too. My only comments are the guitars are high passed aggressively or I didn’t hear a lot of low end from them which made them feel a bit brittle. I added a distortion module with a low pass filter to give my guitars a little “more meat.” The click on the kick was very consistent in the mix and pulling the ckick out during softer hits helps. I automated an eq on the click in my mix to help keep the presence of the click out front and softer when needed. The guitars were not panned much so the drums had a nice full stereo spread while the guitars seemed to live close to center competing with other instruments that were centered.

[toaster]

That hiss on guitar track creaping through..
snare a little too in your face for me.
generally vocals a little loud Id say.
congrats on the babba and yes you do get extra points for that..
good work

[redworks]

hey josh i would say that i could give you 2 stars right off the bat just for taking the time to do it while rocking the baby. so all you have to do is mix for another 3 and you got a 5 star mix. i like the idea of the small-space-live-jam because that is what you have achieved. sometimes the drums get a little too loud. well of course anybody who has jammed in a small space has found the drums to be a little loud at times. the drums do feel a little flat but considering what you were doing at the time not so bad.

[jerze]

nice job. kinda new to this after reading some posts willj and fhumble where saying what i'm not yet able to do as far 3k on guitars ect . like how you used verb on vocal in verse and eqing. great bass sound, know get back to rocking the baby to sleep. ps i remember those days enjoy!! they grow quick. great job

[JoshERTW]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback - I think the problem with the guitar low end was that I was experimenting with some tonal stuff using an amp simulator (Cubase 6 Amp Rack) and I had the lows and mids turned down quite a bit - previously I had been gutting the low end with EQ, and I corrected that after my pre-submission print, but neglected to go back in and bring up the lows on the amp plug-in - before printing the final version. The low end actually sounded more gutted before

[bobbybovine]

Hey Josh. Pretty good sounding man. Everything sounds balanced. I do not like that snare you have, it has a noticably different sound depending on how hard the snare was hit and sounds like entirely different samples. Actually I think the drum sound you went with doesn't really jive with the rest of the tracks. The vox to my ears seem to have a bit of low mid buildup but only at certain parts for example at 3:55 it is quite noticable. They also seem to duck under the guitars here and there and lose impact but nothing a quick bit of automation couldn't cure. Good work, now you just have to get that baby turnin some knobs.

[bobbybovine]

Oh no my friend. Thats Bovines territory. I would never make those kinds of cracks about your loved ones.

Are you calling his hand a loved one?? It seems I have quite the reputation.

[JoshERTW]

Hey Josh. Pretty good sounding man. Everything sounds balanced. I do not like that snare you have, it has a noticably different sound depending on how hard the snare was hit and sounds like entirely different samples. Actually I think the drum sound you went with doesn't really jive with the rest of the tracks. The vox to my ears seem to have a bit of low mid buildup but only at certain parts for example at 3:55 it is quite noticable. They also seem to duck under the guitars here and there and lose impact but nothing a quick bit of automation couldn't cure. Good work, now you just have to get that baby turnin some knobs.

Hey man, glad you liked the mix, was wondering when you'd saunter in here - I'm certainly not 100% happy with the drums - the sample I went with does actually sound extremely different depending on the velocities you put in, and I've got like 3 samples to choose from that aren't completely inappropriate i.e. some weird industrial noise or hand-clapping or some shit - Groove Agent was not meant for rock and I'm too broke to buy SSD right now.

I really just didn't have time to really go as nuts as I'd have liked on my drum processing - i.e. what I would do for someone paying me for an epic mix I did automate the guitars down during most vocal parts, but I might have missed a couple or been too light on the fader, will add that to the list of things to fix along with the 3k + meat on guitars. Cheers!

Are you calling his hand a loved one??

I'd have a lot of trouble playing guitar without it, so that's probably an accurate statement.

[bobbybovine]

Hey man, glad you liked the mix, was wondering when you'd saunter in here - I'm certainly not 100% happy with the drums - the sample I went with does actually sound extremely different depending on the velocities you put in, and I've got like 3 samples to choose from that aren't completely inappropriate i.e. some weird industrial noise or hand-clapping or some shit - Groove Agent was not meant for rock and I'm too broke to buy SSD right now.

Too bad it stuck out like a sore thumb to me. If anything it will make you be more creative trying to deal with it.

I really just didn't have time to really go as nuts as I'd have liked on my drum processing - i.e. what I would do for someone paying me for an epic mix I did automate the guitars down during most vocal parts, but I might have missed a couple or been too light on the fader, will add that to the list of things to fix along with the 3k + meat on guitars. Cheers!

Kids always eat away at your time.

I'd have a lot of trouble playing guitar without it, so that's probably an accurate statement.

I know Willj loves his hand but I digress.

[pkv2010]

Nice mix, well done.
The two guitar sounds in the intro are a bit unbalanced in terms of volume (one soft, the other loud). Nice tom sound in the intro.
In general in the mix, there seems to be a bit too much energy down low (lows and/or sub lows) – I think it’s the bass, probably needs a bit more aggressive hi-passing. This makes the mix too muddy and rumbly at times. Otherwise, the bass sounds great – rich, powerful.
Drums sound great – snare, kick , toms and cymbals all sound very good, and are placed well.
Lovely tones and placement of lead vox and BV’s.
Some guitar sounds (possibly the lead g) are quite harsh – this could be addressed by reducing the volume 2-3dB, or by attenuating in the hi-mid region of those guitars. There is noticeable/distracting amp buzz at 3.10-3.15.
Congrats.

[Minianimal]

Hi Josh,

Congrats man. Also, nice mix. I don't have alot to say that hasn't already been said. The thing that stuck out immediately was the lack of low-mids. It was also a bit quiet. However, you probably made the right decision there. I think trying for the "Golden -6db" on this track would really hurt the vibe. I really dig the open/live sound you were able to achieve with this. Nice use of space. Well done, sir

[Jeronimo Mora]

Nice mix !

Haha. I almost ALWAYS boost 3.2khz on my guitars. I make up for it by cutting the same amount from the instrument bus. This way the guitars have the boost when compared to the rest of the mix but they don't fight with the vocals. That being said, I didn't hear a problem with the rhythm guitar. The one with an upper mids problem was the first guitar solo imo. I wasn't the biggest fan of the snare sound in the mix. Idk why though. It just sounded a little uninteresting. I felt it could have used a little more crack. Life's more interesting with crack in it. I figure snare drums do too. /crackjokes But seriously, it sounded a little too dark for my tastes. The vocals sounded a little distant at times. The kick could have stood out more.

Great mix !