This Whole Metal Guitar Tone Conformity Issue

[brandondrury]

I'm trying to get my head around the metal guitar player who's obsessed with tone.

For what it's worth, I am a guitar player and have spent quite a hundred million hours on tone in my life. I hate unexciting guitar sounds and will be the first to help out when I think I can.

BUT I was born in 1980. When I was 16, all kinds of bands actually had a unique sound. It was obvious when you heard Megadeth, Slayer, Testament, or Pantera. (Korn was even out doing their own thing.) No one over-thought the production of Master Of Puppets. That, being my favorite metal record ever, didn't need questioning. It was a different time and I accepted it for all the great things it was. A person could find "questionable" facets to the production, but every decision could be questioned on every record. That's just called character and if the music works for you, why find reasons to kill it? If the music doesn't work for you, why even listen to it?

So now it's 2012. Metal, as a whole, has about as much variety within it as the sex life of your average 45 year old. I have quite a bit of trouble telling one and from another in most cases. Production value, as a whole, is rather high....whatever that means. Maybe this is an issue where all black people or Asians look the same to me because my ancestors parked up north for a while. Not sure.

Anyway, I keep hearing from metal guitar players that their tone "sucks". 5-10 years ago that usually meant plugging a Boss Metal Zone into a DI and hitting record. THAT was rough. It did lack all the things that make a great tone great to me. However, now in 2012 I hear great tone ALL THE TIME. By "great tone", I mean that this tone when combined with great music would offer no hindrance to maximum metal doom. I mean I would buy the music right now if their was anything musically interesting going on. Yet, people post their clips about how to make the tone "better".

When there is no hindrance to maximum musical intensity, what the hell is a person to do to "improve it"? At that point, it just becomes an issue of taste. For some reason metalheads like to ask, "Should I get a Tubescreamer to make it better?" While an overdrive booster in front of an amp is a very cool sound and an option I always want in high gain situations, there's no way I can predict whether that will better serve that guy's tastes.

I have no problem with a person digging in further to find that thing that excites them, but posting sound clips with no audio engineering issues on a forum about audio engineering seems a little bit silly to me. Maybe my definition of "audio engineering" being the quest to reduce all hurdles in between the listener and musical intensity is wrong, but I'm positive it will NEVER be the thing that causes the emotional excitement. It can only get out of the way as best it can.

So what is this tone obsession all about?

Is this tone obsession just an issue of the inferiority complex kicking in?
Is this tone obsession along the lines of 110lb chicks who think they are fat and try to lose another 30lbs?
Is this tone obsession just a distraction from the fact that it's the same old cliched music (gh, gh, gh gh gh, jahhhh goes the guitar) with nothing new to offer other than new amp models and new mic placement?

Brandon

[PunkGuy]

So what is this tone obsession all about?

Is this tone obsession just an issue of the inferiority complex kicking in?
Is this tone obsession along the lines of 110lb chicks who think they are fat and try to lose another 30lbs?
Is this tone obsession just a distraction from the fact that it's the same old cliched music (gh, gh, gh gh gh, jahhhh goes the guitar) with nothing new to offer other than new amp models and new mic placement?

I think it's kids without much experience chasing a tone that's in their heads that probably doesn't really exist. If most of these guys heard an amazing guitar track taken out of the context of the whole mix they would probably think it sounded like poo.

I've been there and done that with the whole tone chasing thing--it's just chasing your own tail. I don't see many guys with good gear that they've carefully chosen continue in the quest for tone. Just my two cents.

[kakeux]

I think you should think in the other way (maybe it's not really an other way)...

20 years ago (yeah I'm also born 1980), people were looking for cool new tones (production improvement might have helped from 85 to 95 in the different tone we got)...Now people are all chasing the same guitar tones...Yes, for me there is almost only one guitar tone in modern metal, only two drum sounds in modern metal and only one singer for all the new punkrock bands....So unless they reached that stupid goal, they will never be satisfied with what they have.

Either it's the truth or I'm getting old....

[Stan_Halen]

When I hear a lot of metal songs posted on here for bashing, the guitar tones are usually pretty "killer" and I'm very impressed with them. But alas there seems to be little variation in the sounds (chugga chugga) and it gets boring pretty quick. There have been some exceptions. I think the "chasing tone" thing has a lot to do with trying to emulate a band or guitar player that has a distinctive sound. Players have been doing that forever. At some point in the musical growth process you realize you should just sound like "you" and not your rock-star idol who has $10k or more invested in a to-die-for rig.

[rook2c4]

Sometimes I feel modern metal has reached a stylistic dead end. Not just guitar tones, but also concerning riffs. From band to band, the guitar tones seem to be becoming increasingly similar, as well as the riffs - it's like I'm not hearing anything radically new... like I've heard it all before.

Then again, I've been saying the same thing about rap music for the last 5 or 6 years, so maybe I'm just getting old.

[the evil]

if anyone is getting old around here its definitely not someone born in the 80's. the 80's-the late 90's a lot of stuff was goin on in the music industry with pushing different music onto the radio. goin from the ashes of classic rock, into rap, hair metal, the grunge deal, and punk and metal bands were starting their respective movements of their own labels and such. this pushed the local studios and non signed musicians to make due with the gear they had and to create their own unique sounds. music was also not streamed the second it was done and it might be months before you heard a record and heard all the different variations of guitar tones. it almost seems the era for originality in music and engineering has become steril, especially in the pop and metal production. it seems everything has a formula and regime that is strictly adhered to. i love that slayer still sounds like slayer but most nu metal all sounds identical. its as everyone is afraid to experiment outside the lines.
guitar tones and production are as good as ever but they are not distinct enough to separate the bands sonically as they once did. my opinion is the same as the others previous in that there is only one metal guitar sound, one metal drum sound, the riffs have all been used, and i couldnt tell you band a from infinity. until someone comes along and really changes things im afraid it will stay this way. the bands that will succeed are the ones who really start writing good music and not rehashing the same old riffs and structure. its metal you should be breaking shit not following rules.

[garageband]

Is this tone obsession just an issue of the inferiority complex kicking in?
Is this tone obsession along the lines of 110lb chicks who think they are fat and try to lose another 30lbs?
Is this tone obsession just a distraction from the fact that it's the same old cliched music (gh, gh, gh gh gh, jahhhh goes the guitar) with nothing new to offer other than new amp models and new mic placement?

1. Not so much. See #2.
2. Pretty much. It's you basic adolescent social move to try to fit in and be one of the cool kids. An assumed road to easy acceptance.
3. Not a distraction but a result of. As Rook pointed out, with everyone playing largely the same riffs in the same style, the natural thing to do is make them sound the same as it comes out of the speaker.

Sometimes I feel modern metal has reached a stylistic dead end.

True dat, homey. This is what the end of a musical genre looks like.

Then again, I've been saying the same thing about rap music for the last 5 or 6 years, so maybe I'm just getting old.

I don't hear this. This is music I hear evolving and changing. Stuff in this neck of the woods that's ten years old sounds out-of-place technique-wise and even down to structures used. Metal that's ten years old (even 15) is indistinguishable from what's being recorded now, esp. if remastered to the fashion of the day. (Plays "Taps" on tiny make-believe bugle)

[Labyrinth]

.......So now it's 2012. Metal, as a whole, has about as much variety within it as the sex life of your average 45 year old.

Hmmmm, So your saying it's over or boring at 45?? Not if I have any influence on the proceedings........... :P

[garww]

I wanna' be like Mike.

[kakeux]

I wanna' be like Mike.

Who's that guy?

[dudermn]

Uncle Bob helped Metallica get their tone and better up their live performance.
This whole tone thing is just the guitarist way of talking to you. I find myself constantly getting bombarded by alot of talk over guitars, basses, models nick-names, guitar strings, leds....
At the end of the day, a good guitarist is one who is defined and balanced. It seems that you met alot of guitarists that talk to much.
Yea, getting into a debate over class A tube or class B silicon for jazz performances will really fff up your day if the guitarist in question happens to teach guitar at the local conservatory and loves jazz (he will name every jazz player and what amps and speakers they used like it's the MLB or NBA or WNBA .
Just charge them extra for 'tone discovery' services and have fun.

[bozmillar]

I think almost everybody who has learned to play electric guitar went through this phase. It's far worse for metal than any other genre though. For a genre that is supposed to be breaking rules and not conforming, it sure has a lot of rules and conformity.

[garww]

I think almost everybody who has learned to play electric guitar went through this phase. It's far worse for metal than any other genre though. For a genre that is supposed to be breaking rules and not conforming, it sure has a lot of rules and conformity.

It does seem that way. The is also a compulsion disorder of sorts. I was watching Portlandia on Netflix and the couple goes to the restaurant. They ask about the chicken. The waitress gives the chicken name and goes to fetch the chickens papers to prove he was a happy chicken. That's not enough, and, they have to drive out to the farm to meet the rest of the family before they can order in good conscience.

[Danny Danzi]

This is an awesome discussion and man do I have a lot to say about it. LOL! Well, I'll spare everyone since I'm the wordiest baystid on this forum....and I'll just talk a little on how I live/lived it. I came up playing guitar through the 80's when guys like Eddie Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Warren DeMartinni and George Lynch had the tones everyone wanted. To this day, that's pretty much the tone *I* have. Somewhere in between those players. I think the quest for tone (or the chase) is a good one that can teach you quite a lot as you dive into it.

The thing to be careful about though is when this challenge sucks you up so deep, your playing starts to suffer. I've been there...trust me. But even today, I tone chase on a weekly basis. I find it much easier to achieve now that I've been doing it for so long. But for rock music...I sincerely feel it's a necessity because of how much impact the guitar sound can give a tune. It's the voice other than the real voice singing. The other side of the coin is, by having this incredible tone, you can sometimes get away with a mediocre song. A song that comes to mind for me is that Santa Monica from Everclear. When that final nasty driven guitar kicks in with that drum sound, I don't give a rats ass what the song is about or how cheesy it may have been before it got there. I'm gonna seriously smash my head against the wall and try to cop that sound (which I have by the way lol) and take the energy from that tune and use it to my benefit. It's amazing how that song starts all lame and then rips the flesh off your bones.

But for me, I've always enjoyed the challenge of tone chasing as well as the final outcome. If I wasn't a tone chaser, I sincerely believe I'd not know some of the things I know now. One of those things is...no matter how great your guitar sound is, you will STILL have to manipulate it to make it work in a mix. The reason being, most of us eq the tone as an entity...by itself. Then, when we bring it in with a mix of other instruments, we wonder why it sounds horrible or may not fit in the mix. This also taught me about how much bass should be in a guitar tone.

Also, when I would listen to my tone, I liked when it was a bit w a r m e r sounding, yet as you mix, you find out a guitar with too much mids that sounded good on its own, sounds a bit congested and dull. so I've learned how and when to curb that as well as adding in just the right amount of sizzle. This has helped me not only in my recorded tone, but my live tone as well.

I think I'll always be a tone chaser. It's just something I enjoy doing. I'll never forget the time I had secured my guitar tones. I didn't know what to do with myself. It's like...what, I actually have to play and write now?! LOL! So I make it a point to reset all my stuff and start over every 6 months or so. I have back-ups to my main guitar pre-amp that start in 1994 with saved sounds. So at any time, I can load up a floppy disk into my little back-up sequencer and hear what I thought were good tones in 1994 to present. Or, I listen to an old recording of mine and check on the date...and grab a disc with that tone on it and load it up. It's been both a blessing and a curse to have this capability, but I must admit...even to this day, I still enjoy that challenge.

The time I can go an entire year or longer without messing with my tone is the day I probably have enough of it. I have so many logged tones it's crazy. I can get just about any guitar tone known to man and it's a really good feeling to be in that situation quite honestly. Some guys like it, some guys just go through the motions, some guys do it because they are struggling to hear that certain sound they hear in their heads that they just haven't heard on one of their recordings.....YET.

[garww]

It's all I can do to get one finger in front of the other on the fretboard, these days. I'm still mostly in the finger and pick school of tone, so I can dispense with the gear quest for the most part.