What would you buy with your Afghan War money?

[brandondrury]

First off, I'm curious if anyone is seriously worried about an Afghan invasion. I'm sure they've got B-52s headed right this way. Granted, there is the possibility that the lack of terror at home is a direct result of the valiant efforts of our federal government. However, I'm not even sure the devil would advocate that.

I took a multi-month break from political news. I was doing my usual Science/Tech news check and in the sidelines I saw this U.S., NATO must change to win Afghan war says commander | U.S. | Reuters I was sucked in. It sounds like a Commander from Korea, 'Nam, Iraq or any of the numerous other police actions we've taken that have resulted in miserable failures militarily, politically, and economically.

I see we've spent about $750 per person (based on a US population of 300 million) according to this site Cost of War | National Priorities Project on the war of Afghanistan. That's still less than half of our Iraq bill.

I was just curious how many people want their $750 going to some bomb that will probably miss anyway. Maybe it can go to a F/A-18 Super hornet that doesn't do a damn thing its entire cruise. (See the show, "Carrier"...it's about an air craft carrier that goes out to sea for 6 months and does NOTHING with a crew of 5,000 IN THE MIDDLE OF A DAMN WAR!)

I'm not a hardcore advocate of peace. I realize you can't be a pussy in foreign relations. However, can't we take over the world without spending so much damn money?

Brandon

[jagcmos]

Maybe your next book should be:
How to invade a foreign country on less than 10 dollars a day.

[garageband]

I know! I know! Make sure all US citizens have health care.

And even if the US took over the world, what would they do with it?

[Vulconizer]

Personally, I'd like to see us hang all of the current crop of politicians, the heads of all the banking institutions worldwide, and the guys who own the mainstream media outlets that continue to spew lies and propaganda.

It would cost much less than these wars are and it would serve a purpose. The purpose being: Stop fucking around, you criminal bastards! Treason comes with a penalty!

Check this video out - YouTube - We The People Stimulus Package

If you haven't seen it yet, it should make you mad. Once you are angered, you should check this one out -

YouTube - Robert Welch Founder of The John Birch Society 1974

The second one pisses me off because the plans have been in place since the 1930's or longer and everyone dismissed it as bullshit. Robert Welch stood up and told folks what was in the works and still they denied it.

You know what I want to spend my $750 on? Rope, and I'll go buy it without the government's help....

[garageband]

HAHAHAHAHA! I watched that first video. I love that a reactionary libertarian dresses in garb from the 18th century as he delivers his predictable Pat Buchanan-esque screed. Wrapping himself in an American flag would have disturbed the illusion. Where were these guys seven or so years ago? Afraid of Dick Cheney's secret police, probably, or they were buying it wholesale from the squinty fake Texan. All that "We'll put a boot in yer ass, it's the American way". Hubris is mighty expensive.

Man, that was really hilarious.

[jagcmos]

Gotta love them Birchers...

Working to keep the wealth and power in the hands of white Christians since 1958.

[Vulconizer]

So, I take it you don't agree with anything said in the video? You don't find it remotely possible that what is and has been going on in the U.S. is detrimental to the welfare of the average citizen?

I also see you seem to support the notion of universal healthcare. Do you think it's possible to achieve in the manner it's being presented by the liberals? Serious question there, I'm not being a smart ass or a dumbass, just being curious.

Have you heard the controls they are trying to put into place in this version of the bill? Did you know that this version of the bill may not actually be the one voted upon? It will be sent to the Rules Committee who has the option to totally re-write the bill from the ground up. Read that as - they can slip anything they want into it, without notice. They can then send the bill up for a vote the next day without any further hearings. This was stated in my presence at a local town hall meeting by a member of Congress and confirmed by medical professionals who are extremely active in the political arena.

Hell, there are many congresspeople who haven't read any of it's 1,017 pages, so I guess it doesn't really matter to them. They are going to keep the healthcare plan they already have. If they don't want the plan they are devising, I sure don't.

Here's what I think: I think anything run by the government can be done much better in the private sector. Government proves to be too slow, expensive, bloated, and prone to corruption.

We already have an excellent healthcare system in place, but it does have its problems. A couple of items that would help to make it better for all is to provide tort reform, stepping out of the way and allowing me to buy insurance from out-of-state because more competition=better pricing, and forcing the drug companies to practice fair pricing practices globally. We pay far and away the lion's share of the pharmaceutical companies' costs. Dropping our prices a lot and raising everyone else's a fraction seems to make it a more fair proposition.

Yes, I said we have an excellent system in place, definitely in comparison with anyplace that is already under a socialized healthcare system. Micheal Moore and his skewed bullshit has everyone thinking the opposite of that. The fat and blind leading the blind. I think it's proven time and time again by the people from all over the world who save up their money just to come to the U.S. to get treatment they can get no other place. I see that as coming to an end though, if it's allowed to be put entirely in the hands of the government. It has been proven over and over and over around the globe. How come there are so many Canadians going to U.S. doctors? Waiting lists? Lack of skilled professionals in a system that has no reward for those who excel?

Have you heard about people in Britain dying in ambulances while they wait outside in the hospital parking lot? There is a law that says you have to be seen and cared for within two hours of arrival in the emergency room. The way around that? Close the emergency room and make them sit outside in the ambulance. The other cool thing about it is, now, your ambulance is tied up so when someone calls for one, they end up dying at home or where they happen to be.

Don't think that can ever happen here in the U.S.? Apply red tape, lack of funds, and general government fuckery. It will become a high art and pastime with a quickness.

The only reason I can figure for people to continue to believe this bill has anything to do with actually helping the poor and helpless and isn't about a grab of 1/6 of this country's economy is projection: They want to help out people and they think the government actually feels the same. They project their own good beliefs onto this bill in the mistaken thought that those in Washington are in league with them.

They aren't. Government wants power. Government wants control. All a person needs to do is read excerpts from this bill and they then start to realize it's not what it has been "billed" as. It's a power grab and a lie.

That's why I stand by my earlier statement about hanging those who are screwing with us. Make an example of those who are trying to play us for fools and the next crop will be much more likely to answer to our demands.

As it stands now, I don't believe HR3200 is what the average citizen thinks it is. It is not going to raise up the healthcare standards of the lowest in our society. It is going to drop the standards for everyone. Governmental control has that effect.

[garageband]

I think anything run by the government can be done much better in the private sector. Government proves to be too slow, expensive, bloated, and prone to corruption.

Real quick on this. The first part: I find this old saw to be fallacious and borne out by literally no examples. For-profit companies require, you guessed it. Looks like a tax to me, even it goes into a large building in Connecticut versus one in Washington D.C. The second part: Substitute "Private industry" for "Government" and you still have a true statement.

I would say that "We the People" have the government that "We the People" created - no more, no less. It wasn't bestowed upon us Martians, Vulcans (no offense) nor shadowy NWO types piloting black helicopters.

The health care thing, well... we already have rationing, death panels and interference in the doctor-patient relationship. Like getting the government involved could make things worse. Every other western democracy have this and it works a damn sight better than the unaccountable, corrupt, slow, expensive and bloated system in place now. We are already paying for universal health care. Too bad, the incremental amount to make it actually happen is going for corporate profits. Marvelous how the companies involved can leverage individuals' prejudices to act in ways that are entirely at odds with their self-interests. Less impressive is how TV and radio personalities are able to do this. They are past masters of the craft.

I'm not sure but people get bent out of shape at the oil companies and Wall Street when they game the system and come up with untold billions. Billions? Are they really adding that much value to the system? If so, then they should rest easy knowing their place in the economy is secure - what with them being so efficient, providing a useful service and contributing so much to the advancement of society.

[garageband]

Have you heard about people in Britain dying in ambulances while they wait outside in the hospital parking lot?

So funny, I just had to quote.
No... Have you heard of people in America dying in ambulances as they are sent here and there because they don't have the right kind of insurance?

Please, let's keep the rock-throwing to a minimum in our glass house. I'm guessing 45 million+ Americans are not comforted by such exceptional, near-apocryphal tales. Seriously, the NHS sounds like a fabulous deal. Look what it did for Stephen Hawking.

[Vulconizer]

Originally Posted by garageband

Have you heard of people in America dying in ambulances as they are sent here and there because they don't have the right kind of insurance?

Yeah, I have. Think it's going to get better when the government gets even more involved, though? Medicare or Medicaid, anyone? Social Security? The VA? Do any of those work anywhere near what they were or are proposed to? Will they magically work better when stressed way beyond a capacity they cannot meet right now?

I never said we have a perfect system. I said we have an excellent one when compared to much of what the rest of the world has to offer. It can be a lot better if reforms are made. I listed some of those. There are many others that could be made; all without the government getting it's hands upon roughly 18% of our economy in one giant step.

That goes for big business as well. I am no fan of oil companies, insurance companies, banks, or any business that takes advantage of consumers through fraud or shady tactics. There needs to be adherence to, and enforcement of, regulations made to protect us against price gouging and unfair business practices. However, I am not against a person making some serious cash if he has a good idea and figures out how to implement it in a way that is favorable to both him and his customers.

I know I'm probably not going to sway you to my way of thinking even a little, but if I get you to think for one minute outside of your comfort zone and to not have a sense of total trust in the government, then that's good enough for me.

At least we like music.