Tom Cruise: Genius or Fruitcake?

[Stan_Halen]

Kind of along the lines of my Freddie Mercury query, but this one is regarding the breakup of Tom Cruise's 5-year marriage to Katie Holmes (with daughter Suri in the middle). The media is blaming the split on Tom Cruise's well known affiliation with, and promotion of, the Church of Scientology!

"In a series of tweets on Sunday, News Corp. boss Rupert Murdoch called the religion "a very weird cult" and said that Cruise is the "number two or three" man in the church's hierarchy."

In the sense of being a great movie actor, I have a lot of regard for Tom Cruise. Not just his commercial success, but I have always enjoyed his performances. I particularly liked the recent "Knight and Day" with Cameron Diaz. Really good movie! As an actor, Tom is generally very well respected.

BUT, what about this COS stuff? What attracts obviously intelligent and talented folks such as Tom (as well as John Travolta and other celebrities) to a "weird cult" ... if that's what COS is? What do you think of the Church of Scientology? Is it a "Weird Cult" or a revolutionary new religion?

[Bigduggieface]

Scientology is indeed a textbook example of a "Weird Cult".

L. Ron Hubbard decided to take his science fiction writing to a new experimental level and he created his own religion. The Church of Scientology. He proposed a new 'science of mind' he dubbed "Dianetics". The whole thing sounds superficially plausible, but upon scrutiny is found to be unaccompanied with any verifiable evidence and is inherently unscientific. But this problem has never stopped religions from flourishing.

Nobody decides to be a member of a cult. The word 'cult' has negative connotations of brainwashing or manipulation. Cult members usually report not feeling manipulated, but they are often sheltered from mainstream thought that might expose the cult.

I don't know about Cruise's or Travolta's reasons for affiliating themselves with Scientology. People become attached to religions for all sorts of indefensible reasons. It may seem completely logical and even personally beneficial when viewed from within one's religious circle. Only when viewed with a skeptical outside perspective can we objectively shed light on where these concocted religions stray from reality.

[bobbybovine]

Scientology is indeed a textbook example of a "Weird Cult".

L. Ron Hubbard decided to take his science fiction writing to a new experimental level and he created his own religion. The Church of Scientology. He proposed a new 'science of mind' he dubbed "Dianetics". The whole thing sounds superficially plausible, but upon scrutiny is found to be unaccompanied with any verifiable evidence and is inherently unscientific. But this problem has never stopped religions from flourishing.

Nobody decides to be a member of a cult. The word 'cult' has negative connotations of brainwashing or manipulation. Cult members usually report not feeling manipulated, but they are often sheltered from mainstream thought that might expose the cult.

I don't know about Cruise's or Travolta's reasons for affiliating themselves with Scientology. People become attached to religions for all sorts of indefensible reasons. It may seem completely logical and even personally beneficial when viewed from within one's religious circle. Only when viewed with a skeptical outside perspective can we objectively shed light on where these concocted religions stray from reality.

That is probably the most concise, correct, and non judgmental thing I have heard anyone say about COS. I don't know much about the religion myself, but the reality is no matter what religion it is, or belief system anyone subscribes to, if it makes that persons life better, more bearable, more enjoyable etc... then that is really all that matters (as long as no one is getting hurt or being manipulated). I bet there will be a shit ton of people blaming this whole thing on COS but last I checked Christianity doesn't seems to be batting a thousand on the marriage front either.

Oh, and to answer your question Stan, Tom is definitely a genius fruitcake!

[Jeronimo Mora]

Fruit Genius.

[acmeman]

I dabbled in COS in the 80s like I have with most Church/Religions/Cults, I'm just a curious fellow. I lasted a few months and decided I'd seen enough.
I didn't have any problems leaving though I've heard others have. I think you'd have to be a little strange to follow their belief system so that puts
TC in the Fruitcake barrel. I thought Katie Holmes was in COS too? Anyway, who's to say the real reason for the breakup. Katie did say it was for the protection
of her children's future and she may have also been gagged not to mention COS in that same sentence . I'd certainly want my children to have the freedom
to choose their own path. Which can be difficult if you have been raised within a church/cult environment.

He certainly is a great actor and him being a COS doesn't stop me from watching and enjoying his performances. Celebrities do help these organisations have
some credibility and I dare say they would be treated differently to normal folk. Who's the other actor? John Travolta his cross dressing finished his marriage.

[garww]

It's a great alternative for those who can't lobatamize themselves. Anyway, these topical people seem to be talented, rather than geniuses. Try the actress Hedy Lamarr

[German Fafian]

I always thought you had to be a bit of a fruitcake to become an artist anyway :P

As for the COS. I had family members "join" for a while and leave because of an "overly repressive and controlled" environment but then again most, if not all, religions fit that description.

[garageband]

I'm going with "Genius Weirdo". That guy seems much weirder than just the Scientology stuff alone.

[JoshERTW]

People were discussing him on another forum I regularly check. They raised the point that all three of Tom Cruise's marriages ended when the wife was 33 (I don't care enough to check if that's true), and that the original Church of Scientology is in Phoenix, on the 33rd Parallel. Here's some crazy conspiracy brainstorming:

I know 33 is a big deal in Free Masonry (highest level you can get to in their heirarchy), but no idea if there's any relationship between FM & CS.

All I can figure is both organizations are into occult numerology, and the number 3 and its various numerological permutations figure prominently in the occult (as it represents the third eye, 3 sides of the pyramid etc). As I understand it, pagan numerology is all about adding together digits, i.e. if a number is 33, in numerology that means 3+3 = 6, so, 3 groups of 3+3 = 6,6,6 (or 666) which represents illumination or universal knowledge (not evil like the church wants people to think, thats just old school doublespeak to make people scared of paganism and want to do the Jesus thing).

I'll just throw this out there, the church probably told him something about how he needed to sacrifice (his relationships with) 3 women at 33 years old each, to achieves some sort of magical new "illuminated" level in the CS?

So in short - Magical Fruit Cake

[German Fafian]

no idea if there's any relationship between FM & CS.

Just for the record. There is none.

[JoshERTW]

Just for the record. There is none.

Was pretty sure there wasn't

[Stan_Halen]

I think you'd have to be a little strange to follow their belief system so that puts
TC in the Fruitcake barrel. I thought Katie Holmes was in COS too? Anyway, who's to say the real reason for the breakup. Katie did say it was for the protection of her children's future and she may have also been gagged not to mention COS in that same sentence

It has been said that Katie "converted" to COS (see video), but maybe she just tolerated it. My recollection is that she has been involved with it to some degree during their marriage. She was raised Catholic. It has been speculated that Tom wished to start "indoctrinating" their daughter Suri into the organization, and that this is one of the causative factors involved in the split. But of course, she won't come out and say that directly.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_bn1...cientology.cnn

[garageband]

Hey, it looks like someone has put some effort behind all this. Kinda funny, kinda sad.

TomCruiseIsNuts.com

[Stan_Halen]

I'll just throw this out there, the church probably told him something about how he needed to sacrifice (his relationships with) 3 women at 33 years old each, to achieves some sort of magical new "illuminated" level in the CS?

So in short - Magical Fruit Cake

Interesting numerology speculation Josh!

Everything that I have gathered so far is that Katie made this decision, and that Tom is incredibly unhappy with it. He doesn't want it. On the other hand, his dedication to COS may have led to the "sacrifice" you suggest ... so we'll see. Interestingly, one of his other wives - Nicole Kidman - was also raised Catholic, and returned to that faith after their breakup. The COS thing seems to factor in very heavily!

[jackslab1]

I seen a thing about scientology on the discovery channel and they said the beleif was aliens have a spaceship up there somewhere and have these pod things that grow us. So technically we're all aliens. LMFAO. TC is a fruitcake, just like travolta and LRon Hubbard.

[garww]

I'm going with "Genius Weirdo". That guy seems much weirder than just the Scientology stuff alone.

That could be just one degree of Californiation. It affects people differently, but I suspect he was weird before puberty.

[Stan_Halen]

Hey, it looks like someone has put some effort behind all this. Kinda funny, kinda sad.

TomCruiseIsNuts.com

I seen a thing about scientology on the discovery channel and they said the beleif was aliens have a spaceship up there somewhere and have these pod things that grow us. So technically we're all aliens. LMFAO. TC is a fruitcake, just like travolta and LRon Hubbard.

Right. The more extreme stuff tends to attract the most publicity. There has been some similar focus on Mormonism due to the presidential campaign of Mitt Romney. Mormon's also have some references to "space beings" or aliens that inspired the founding of that religion.

[garageband]

Mormon's also have some references to "space beings" or aliens that inspired the founding of that religion.

Those "space beings" would be "God" and "Jesus". Wacky, huh?

[garww]

My best friend from age 15 was cleared early on and handled it pretty well( but wasn't smart enough(enabled) to stay alive). A lot of people can't handle anything very well. There are old Christian paintings with UFO objects in the sky and also old Hindu tales.

My basic "fear" is that many people take-up things like this for the wrong reasons - like being enabled. Another step beyond just being a Groupy of one sort or another where there may be some power trip( two Marshall stacks).

[Stan_Halen]

Those "space beings" would be "God" and "Jesus". Wacky, huh?

But doesn't God reside in Heaven, instead of on or near the planet Kolob?

Kolob - | - Mormon Handbook

[Emma]

I still remain profoundly affected by a Louis Theroux doco where SO MANY American citizens believed that they had been abducted by aliens...
Hmmm... That seemed serially weird to me.
I read too many women's magazine's around the time of Tom C's last marriage breakups and so I know for a FACT that he is a flawed individual and I simply cannot reconcile 'genius' as a descriptor...
even fruitcake seems way too yummy...
Alas... I am beset by inner prejudice! And worst of all... I don't seem to care!!

[garageband]

But doesn't God reside in Heaven, instead of on or near the planet Kolob?

Kolob - | - Mormon Handbook

"Kolob", "Heaven": potay-to, potah-to. I can't see any meaningful distinction.

[Stan_Halen]

My best friend from age 15 was cleared early on and handled it pretty well( but wasn't smart enough(enabled) to stay alive). A lot of people can't handle anything very well. There are old Christian paintings with UFO objects in the sky and also old Hindu tales.

My basic "fear" is that many people take-up things like this for the wrong reasons - like being enabled. Another step beyond just being a Groupy of one sort or another where there may be some power trip( two Marshall stacks).

I do find the COS goal of becoming "clear" intriguing. They take a "scientific" approach to identifying and neutralizing emotional traumas from the past (*spiritual distress*) - through "auditing" - so the person can function on a healthier and more capable level ... but this approach also endorses the notion that it "at the highest level transcends material law".

Self-improvement and social conscientiousness are worthwhile goals that religions can help foster, but when it crosses over to the supernatural/Superman "spiritual warrior" thing it seems to appeal more to the ego than anything else.

[garww]

Ya, I once joined the Pop-a-Zit religion, and once the Zit was popped, they didn't feel the need to monitor my afterlife. I wouldn't even call Hubbard a genius, but he had some interesting ideas. In comparison, AmWay looks like Heaven. Ha !

[garageband]

but this approach also endorses the notion that it "at the highest level transcends material law".

Self-improvement and social conscientiousness are worthwhile goals that religions can help foster, but when it crosses over to the supernatural/Superman "spiritual warrior" thing it seems to appeal more to the ego than anything else.

Nothing shocking here. "Nirvana" isn't just the name of a band.

I'll let Nietzsche explain why the Übermensch concept is such a fine line to walk, as you alluded. Something about having to master the world before being able to transcend it. That's my best guess.