Stealing Money from Musicians

[brandondrury]

I personally believe that recording music has no value any more. We can talk all day long about how it used to have value, and blame people for why it doesn't have value, but the fact is, it has no monetary value. But if musicians aren't making money off of recorded music any more, then why are they still making it? If it was such a huge burden, wouldn't we see a huge decrease in the amount of recorded music? Until the day comes that good musicians stop recording music, then there won't be any pressure on people to pay for music.

If bands feel that strongly about it, maybe they should go on a recording strike. They can say "we've decided not to record any more albums until people start paying for music again." What would be the reaction from people? Would they say "oh, I'm sorry, I promise I'll buy your next album"? or would they say "screw you, I'll go listen to someone else then." I would be willing to bet that any band that went on strike would disintegrate pretty quickly. And if not putting out albums that (don't make you money) causes you to disintegrate, then maybe all those albums that you made but didn't make any money from weren't doing you as much harm as you thought.

I think there will always be bands willing to put out free recordings of their music. As long as that's the case, recording music won't have much monetary value. Are the bands who are putting out free music to blame for the bands that are charging for their music not making money? We don't complain about google making google docs for free and slashing at microsoft's business do we?

There are plenty of ways to give value to recorded music, it's just that nobody wants to spend the energy to think of ways to do it. If a band said "buy our album and get $15 off your next concert ticket," I bet you'd see a rise in sales. The music industry as it stands is a dying industry. If they don't learn to adapt, then they won't make money, plain and simple. While I fully support the collapse of the music industry as we know it, a lot of good things would be lost, but I think more good things would be gained.

I agree with every biz of this.

I'll also add that smart, talented, hard working musicians are still making money. I think it's a hell of a stretch to say that any one particular band is starving because of piracy. It's impossible to isolate shitty songwriting, boring people, a boring website, etc. You can't. The top 5 pop chicks for last year made a total of almost $250,000,000. How much has Bob Dylan or John Prine made in their careers? Who cares, but it's clear that someone is still making money somehow.

If a person doesn't like the shitty money they make from a fun job they should get a shitty job where they make a fun amount of money. That's been the way the system has worked from Day 1.

Brandon

[Beat Poet]

I'll also add that smart, talented, hard working musicians are still making money. I think it's a hell of a stretch to say that any one particular band is starving because of piracy. It's impossible to isolate shitty songwriting, boring people, a boring website, etc. You can't. The top 5 pop chicks for last year made a total of almost $250,000,000. How much has Bob Dylan or John Prine made in their careers? Who cares, but it's clear that someone is still making money somehow.

That's something I've thought about, everybody goes on about how little money there is left in music, yet those on the top rungs (particularly the singers you mentioned, plus Bieber) are absolutely raking it in. They're not raking it in soley on the music though, there's the films and fragrances and God knows what else. It just sucks that for artists lower down the rungs, the only thing you can put out is music, so you still need to get to a certain level before you can supplement your income/profile with all the extra endeavours.

[wankerone]

My generation is a bunch of douche bags. That is the bottom line. "I love you guys, I can't wait for your next album" "When are you coming to Texas, California or Ohio or Germany or Scotland or Brazil" I hear this constantly which is cool, but I need gas money. If you ripped or downloaded my songs without paying I am not coming to ohio or california bottom line, cause I have no money for gas. I really appreciate the people that come out to shows, or buys my music but my generation does not go out to shows. They might pay $100.00 to see a popular act at Madison Square Garden plus train tickets and chipotle. I had over 700 kids in my class maybe 20 went to any local shows. The line is I am broke, then you see them at chipotle spending $10. They could have seen 20 bands play yesterday for $12.00 at the door and some really good bands. It is all bullshit, kids are lazy and want music for free, but will spend crazy money on shit cause it is cool or they think it is cause they have been sold hard. I am in a bad mood... got to change it I am on my way to play a show in Connecticut. We will make more on tshirts and cd's then it costs for gas and tolls. What we started to do was to have the kids or ask us to come to their area help us to get the booking. We have even just started to sat hey get 30 of your friends together and stuff like that. Some seem like they will try and do it so there is hope for some in my generation.

On another side I get more clothing companies that want me to wear their tshirts. Now they have to pay me to wear them not just give me free shirts. I have enough of them.

[dudermn]

I agree man. There's no reason to play gigs anymore
Other than to get rawdy and for the TnA !!!

Good attitude though, make the kids be promoters ! Than they'll respect the music biz even more considering most of um are probably young slackers ?
There still are great things happening, cbgbs fest is going to be awesome... and expensive... and not punk..but they have about 130 venues, and 40-50 separate bands playing at the same time everyday for about 5 days.... Chuck berries giging it too !
Than they have the whole music production bit.

Though I'm just gonna learn to play free bird (again) and drive a big rig around the country playing free-bird at every truck stop with a machanical bull and a every titty bar I can find myself in, till this howle mp3 apocalypse is over.

Some said that the world will end this year....I think itll end when the last mp3 player is made.

On the other hand, we should support S.o.p.a. !

[Ruprect]

Might as well just roll over because it isn't going away. I went to the local Best Buy and Pmac Music today because a band I really love came out with a new album yesterday. When I arrived at Best Buy I noticed the cd selection was 1/4 of what it used to be, and Pmac didn't have it. So I gave up and went to itunes. It really pissed me off that I can't even buy a cd from a band with a major label distribution deal anymore.

[garageband]

Might as well just roll over because it isn't going away. I went to the local Best Buy and Pmac Music today because a band I really love came out with a new album yesterday. When I arrived at Best Buy I noticed the cd selection was 1/4 of what it used to be, and Pmac didn't have it. So I gave up and went to itunes. It really pissed me off that I can't even buy a cd from a band with a major label distribution deal anymore.

Damn, that house of cards of the major labels is crumbling fast. Right before our eyes, even.

[Jeronimo Mora]

Might as well just roll over because it isn't going away. I went to the local Best Buy and Pmac Music today because a band I really love came out with a new album yesterday. When I arrived at Best Buy I noticed the cd selection was 1/4 of what it used to be, and Pmac didn't have it. So I gave up and went to itunes. It really pissed me off that I can't even buy a cd from a band with a major label distribution deal anymore.

That wouldn't be Periphery you are referring to, is it ?

[dudermn]

As the famous words of Wednesday from the Adams family.
Wait.

[Beat Poet]

Might as well just roll over because it isn't going away. I went to the local Best Buy and Pmac Music today because a band I really love came out with a new album yesterday. When I arrived at Best Buy I noticed the cd selection was 1/4 of what it used to be, and Pmac didn't have it. So I gave up and went to itunes. It really pissed me off that I can't even buy a cd from a band with a major label distribution deal anymore.

I can't remember the last time I actually bought a CD in a record shop, really struggling to think, maybe around 2007, which looking back seems to be just before that crossover period with the shift from CDs to downloads. There must have been a time over the next year when a major label band I liked put out a new album, I went down HMV, it wasn't there and I thought "sod this" and got it off Amazon. If you're lucky you even get new releases turn up in the post from Amazon on the Saturday before release, which is great - you're in a better mood to accept a new album on a Saturday than Monday!

[rook2c4]

People often forget that there are other ways for musicians to make money with their craft - most notably live shows. A musician that focuses on puting on a great show and gaining a fan base and reputation through shows is less dependent on recorded output and less vunerable to music piracy. The CD's role is then to support the live shows, not the other way around.

[German Fafian]

the attitude that "music ain't worth shit even if I absolutely adore the artist and this music speaks to me in a way I really dig.

Maybe the fact that most people from the late 80s on have grown up listening to radio music that is really "not worth shit" is having a secondary effect that the Majors could not foresee when they decided to feed the population with cookie cutter garbage.
But I could not tell for real and nowadays I´m not too sure where I stand on this matter.
All I know is I still buy albums for my fav bands/musicians like Rush, Haji´s Kitchen, DT and go as far as pre-ordering albums that are yet to be recorded like the famous "Anoraknophobia" from Marillion, which was the first album to be recorded from the money collected from fans after EMI decided they were not "commercially viable" and dumped their recording contract. So I think there are alternatives if you really know how to work your way around the new technology and use it to your advantage instead of spending your energy fighting it like the Majors do.

[Dahla]

People often forget that there are other ways for musicians to make money with their craft - most notably live shows. A musician that focuses on puting on a great show and gaining a fan base and reputation through shows is less dependent on recorded output and less vunerable to music piracy. The CD's role is then to support the live shows, not the other way around.

What about us musicians that can't or don't play live shows? It's not easy to get (good) gigs here, getting paid to drive across the country and create a show at a club is a non-issue since club- and bar owners always can book bands that are willing to play for free etc. After paying the dues for a couple of years I'm not willing to do that anymore... My band didn't even get paid for gas and food and slept on couches, I'm to old for that shit.

[bobbybovine]

What about us musicians that can't or don't play live shows? It's not easy to get (good) gigs here, getting paid to drive across the country and create a show at a club is a non-issue since club- and bar owners always can book bands that are willing to play for free etc. After paying the dues for a couple of years I'm not willing to do that anymore... My band didn't even get paid for gas and food and slept on couches, I'm to old for that shit.

Man you just triggered a thought. I have done the travelling around local bars, underage hangouts, sleeping in the car/van, no pay other than a pitcher of beer etc.. and that was 10 years ago. Even then trying to make some cash to just break even was difficult. Seems like times haven't changed much or have gotten even worse. We used to sell our cd's but it very rarely was new fans that we didn't know personally, now you can't even do that it seems. I have a friend that was in a fairly popular band back in the 80's. They used to get 4 and 5 day bar gigs, and make thousands locally, then I remember him saying once the early 90's came around absolutely no one was coming to their gigs, and without demand there is no money. And not just them but the majority of popular bands suddenly could barely get booked and only if they took a significant cut. So what happened? Did the public just not want to watch live music anymore? Did they only want to have a DJ so they could hear their favorite song at the club as it sounds on the CD? Has the search for perfection in the craft that we all here love caused the fall of the live music scene? Live music IS alive and well if you see how many festivals there are, but it is only big name dudes, and some smaller names if you are lucky to get on one. As for the local bands or bands that aren't signed, I don't believe that downloading MP3's is what caused the gigs with little to no pay. Hell most bands at the local level generally would give away their music to try and generate a fan base. Although MP3's take away from sales (there is no doubt about that) the positive in this is a local band CAN reach potentially millions of people with click of a mouse or a tweet etc... so in essence it is easier today to be the overnight success. Of course there are more bands than ever so it is far from easy. All that being said it still doesn't fix the lack of people going to shows and buying beer so the bar can make enough money to pay the bands fairly. Hopefully that will change in the future so bands can make enough money to pay for our recording services!

[wankerone]

We put out our new album july first. I found the first illegal download site today. Shows do not pay crap. Right now I'm looking at an 1800 dollar transmission repair to go play shows. Shows are fun and impdortant to get out the word. But when I see my brand new stuff being ripped five days later. I get pissed. Especially from a site that pays bonuses for more downloads.

If a kid has no money and likes my music they can listen for free on Facebook. Of course if they have a smartphone for listening to mp three's and a computer for going on the internt then they could probably afford my album.
Or just pick and choose the songs they say to pay for.

[bobbybovine]

We put out our new album july first. I found the first illegal download site today. Shows do not pay crap. Right now I'm looking at an 1800 dollar transmission repair to go play shows. Shows are fun and impdortant to get out the word. But when I see my brand new stuff being ripped five days later. I get pissed. Especially from a site that pays bonuses for more downloads.

If a kid has no money and likes my music they can listen for free on Facebook. Of course if they have a smartphone for listening to mp three's and a computer for going on the internt then they could probably afford my album.
Or just pick and choose the songs they say to pay for.

That is kind of my point. Newish bands or unsigned bands have never made a lot of money from both shows or cd sales. However, with time and as your fan base grows, in a perfect world (like in the 80's) you would make more money from shows and your CD (tape back then) sales would increase as well. But what I am saying is nowadays, it is almost impossible to make money from shows, then if you do start drawing in a crowd consistently, they don't buy CD's so you are screwed there. The only thing as far as I can see is playing as many shows as possible, in front of as many people as possible, being really cool with the people you meet then hopefully they will search for your stuff on Youtube which at least it is tracked and hits are counted. For anyone trying to make it on the old model of CD sales, that ship has sailed. So play shows to get noticed, keep playing them until enough people search you out on the interwebs, and download your stuff, with the hopes that some big name festivals take note to get you even more publicity, which hopefully turns into playing gigs that pay some real money. Of course there is getting your music placed in commercials, movies, TV shows etc. It is tough that is for sure.

[Dahla]

That is kind of my point. Newish bands or unsigned bands have never made a lot of money from both shows or cd sales. However, with time and as your fan base grows, in a perfect world (like in the 80's) you would make more money from shows and your CD (tape back then) sales would increase as well. But what I am saying is nowadays, it is almost impossible to make money from shows, then if you do start drawing in a crowd consistently, they don't buy CD's so you are screwed there. The only thing as far as I can see is playing as many shows as possible, in front of as many people as possible, being really cool with the people you meet then hopefully they will search for your stuff on Youtube which at least it is tracked and hits are counted. For anyone trying to make it on the old model of CD sales, that ship has sailed. So play shows to get noticed, keep playing them until enough people search you out on the interwebs, and download your stuff, with the hopes that some big name festivals take note to get you even more publicity, which hopefully turns into playing gigs that pay some real money. Of course there is getting your music placed in commercials, movies, TV shows etc. It is tough that is for sure.

In my case it's not about getting rich, but it would be nice to at least break even. I guess there is harder and harder to catch a break because there is ALOT of people and bands pushing for the same fan base. Even where I live there is a million of the same type of bands and everyone doesn't suck. Most bands are actually quite good. So the people going to shows etc aren't exactly thrilled when there finally is a metal band that finally is putting on a ridiculously good live show, every band has a light show and pyro now even the folk singers, and there is 5 bands on every stage 6 times a week.

There is good money in music here though if you're willing to play music for the grown up crowd that wants to swing their partner around. The fan base then would be 50+. It's a shame that you have to let go off your soul, bend over and let the demons of crushed dreams have their way with you though...

Ever heard scandinavian danseband? Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9hKe...e_gdata_player

If you thought pop is bland, trying listening to all those bands. Every song is the same, originality is not ok. But they make a GOOD living.

[bobbybovine]

ha, Yeah, my parents would love that stuff! Actually it is not all that different from our countryish folk music here. The only thing that I like less than that is our good ol down home Cape Breton fiddle music that is always in 3/4 or 6/8. Like this one, she is well know from where I grew up. But I never could tolerate this style of music, as much as I tried when I was younger.

[bozmillar]

If you are going to treat music like a business, then treat it like a business. If people aren't going to pay to listen to your style of music, then either play a different style of music or find a different angle to make money. But just because something was a viable business model 15 years ago, doesn't mean it is today.

If live shows aren't making you money, then why are you doing them? Because it's fun? If it's fun, then why are you complaining about not making money? Because someone else is doing it and making money? Then figure out what they are doing different than you are.

Too many good bands? Then find a way to be better or find a different business. That's how business works. There's no rule that says you have to be compensated in order to make music, live or studio. If people aren't buying your stuff, change your stuff. When was the last time you saw a commercial that just complained about people not buying their stuff?

People making good music and not making money is not a new thing. It's been going on since music was invented.

[Dahla]

ha, Yeah, my parents would love that stuff! Actually it is not all that different from our countryish folk music here. The only thing that I like less than that is our good ol down home Cape Breton fiddle music that is always in 3/4 or 6/8. Like this one, she is well know from where I grew up. But I never could tolerate this style of music, as much as I tried when I was younger.

Yeah, jig time baby!

Danseband is entertaining beyond belief though. The swedes are big on this, and some norwegian bands almost sing in swedish to "make it real", it's ridiculous. Ready for some all time high band photos?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1341616096.583112.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1341616109.027796.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1341616119.584339.jpg

Now this is awesome:

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1341616143.411358.jpg

Band name? Cock-suckerz
Album title? Mixed balls...

Says it all... haha

[bobbybovine]

Yeah, jig time baby!

Danseband is entertaining beyond belief though. The swedes are big on this, and some norwegian bands almost sing in swedish to "make it real", it's ridiculous. Ready for some all time high band photos?


Now this is awesome:


Band name? Cock-suckerz
Album title? Mixed balls...

Says it all... haha

Classic!! Looks like outfits from 1970's US Country!!

[Dahla]

When was the last time you saw a commercial that just complained about people not buying their stuff?

Yesterday when I put on a DVD.

[bobbybovine]

Remember these?

[Stan_Halen]

"No Rocket Sauce!"

[jackslab1]

Yeah, don't be a deuche!

[Dahla]

Remember these?

Haha, wow! Never seen those before.