Obsessed With History, Uninterested In The Present

[brandondrury]

My interest in history continues to grow exponentially.

I just finished the 26 part series "World At War" about WW2. I'm reading "The Good War" which is a collection of American interviews ranging from the dudes at the Battle of the Bulge to the Japanese in internment camps.

I just ordered 10 more books from Amazon (used) last night.

While on vacation in North Carolina, I picked up a newspaper looking thing which was essentially "Why The Civil War Was Bullshit". It had some earth shattering concepts in it that actually made sense. I've always been more of a Yankee type dude, but do a search for Morrill Tariff.

So here's my question:
Why am I so gung ho about understanding WW2, the Civil War, the Cold War, etc and at teh same time I have as much interest in watching the news as I do kicking myself in the balls? I don't give a damn who the next president is. I'll hate him no matter what.

I'm voting independent on everything and not because I think my vote is worth a shit, but simply because I don't care much for the 2 party system and maybe in 50 years we could have 3 bullshit parties instead of just 2.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

So here's my question:
Why am I so gung ho about understanding WW2, the Civil War, the Cold War, etc and at teh same time I have as much interest in watching the news as I do kicking myself in the balls? I don't give a damn who the next president is. I'll hate him no matter what.

Ever heard the saying "Hindsight is 20/20 vision"?


Baron

[brandondrury]

Sure I have. What's your point?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

Sure I have. What's your point?

You prefer to get the truth or at least the best report that can be had. The history you have been viewing is pretty true in regard to fact. The News, on the other hand, is usually designed to sell advertising time slots.

Brandon, it's a bit like your "Why Recording Review" email. You hated the crap and just wanted to get some truth.

You asked the question as to why you prefer the historical stuff over the present day and you answered it in 'Why Recording Review'.

Hence my mention of 'Hindsight is........'.
You prefer a higher degree of clarity to your world.


Cheers

Baron

[Charlie_M]

Sounds like you're making a hobby of it or at least having a passing fancy with it. In times when I've done that I can look back later and see what it was about. I took up woodworking many years ago and built some pretty cool furniture for the wife. Years later I looked back at it and realized it gave me a complete project to design, build, finish and enjoy all the way through. This is something that i never get from my work because I work in high tech and everything there is done in a team. No one guy can do all the parts. SO I do my part and enjoy it but I was for sure lacking that sense of completion you get when you do an entire project end to end like you would when you design and build a piece of furniture. At a later point I took up winemaking and from that I learned patience - something I sorely needed to learn back then and still need a reminder of sometimes. And on and on it goes with new hobbies for me. I can never tell what it's about at the time, but later I can look back and see it. Maybe history will end up like that for you. I do think there is a great deal of tension in the air now surrounding the question of conflict. I've tuned out of the news not so much because it's crap (it is but that's beside the point...) but because it is unable to inform me about the main issue of the day. That issue cannot be made substantially clearer to me than it is right now until we're looking back at it through the lens of history and the freedom of information act. I may be in the ground by then. Until that day comes everyone has so transparently picked their side and is cheering for "their side" from behind the tv camera that I think there's nothing to be gained by watching it except for the comfort one feels at seeing a person on tv spouting a point of view not unlike your own. But for me... I can't find that either!

[.tom]

...cuz there's nuthin' more 2 no about corporations gouging you for everything they can get away with -including sending kids to "war" so they can get your tax $ by winning bids 2 manage the invasion. you're curious about "us" so, you search out sources that are less likely tainted with corporate (christian masked) spin.. its normal -except 4 the dead kids and corporate greed parts. the cool thing about studying ww2 is the security in knowing who was bad and who was good.. and why. germany/hitler wanted an empire (among other stuff) and so did japan.. u.s. is doing the same assimilation now but it's masked by calling it bringing democracy. and the leaders have been doing it since after ww2... not real entertaining to study m. i. .c. tactix cuz they're so basic (based in deception)and barbarik..

[jdaug]

...those who dont know history are condemned to repeat it.

too bad more of our elected leaders havent learned the lessons of the past.

germany/hitler wanted an empire (among other stuff) and so did japan.. u.s. is doing the same assimilation now but it's masked by calling it bringing democracy

ummm...no. its called defending the homeland and getting some payback for 9/11. I dont know about you tom, but Im not the type of guy who gets sucker punched and then then sits there and does nothing like a scared sissy, and neither is this country. in case you havent paid attention to recent history, the muslim fanatics have been waging war on us for nearly 30 years. we finally did something about it. they are the ones who want a global empire called the new caliphate. they are the ones who want to kill or convert all infidels. thats not my words. thats theirs. look at any radical muslim literature, or just listen to bin laden or that little hitler-monkey in iran.

corporations gouging you for everything they can get away with -including sending kids to "war" so they can get your tax $ by winning bids 2 manage the invasion

Did you even graduate high school tom? If you did, you would know that corporations dont send "kids" to war. the president does with the approval of congress. Also, little bit of military science here for you: corporations dont manage invasions, the military does. Wow. Scary. Im not sending my kids to public school if this is what they are teaching.

if you disagree with the war in iraq, i can respect that. if you hate Bush, no problem. If you hate or distrust christians, you are entitled to do so. if you are jealous of people who make profits, then work a little harder. if you fail to recognize that radical islam is the most dangerous threat on the planet, you are either one of them or you are sadly uninformed.

People who think like you were the same ones who said in 1939: "Hitler isnt such a bad guy.. Lets just leave him alone and maybe he will leave us alone."

Im not a Bush fan, nor do I trust the government as far as I can punt it. But I am a veteran and a student of history like Brandon. This war is not about US empire building or corporate profits like you allege (although US companies and US congressman, democrat and republican alike, are making profits off of it-just ask Diane Feinstein D-CA), its primarily about defending our way of life from an enemy who has declared war on us. Guess what? US companies and congressmen also made profits in WW2. Huge profits. Its what brought the country out of the great depression you idiot. Profits are good. Does that mean that WW2 was an unjust war because some companies made profits and some crooked congressman got kickbacks? No. In hindsight now everyone with half a brain agrees we did the right thing in WW2, including dropping the A-bomb. There were tactical blunders in WW2, just like Iraq may end up being a tactical blunder in the war on islamic fascism if we lose there. Our tactical blunders in WW2 cost tens of thousands of american lives. So far in Iraq we have lost less than 5000. They are not kids. They are soldiers. I know. I commanded over 200 of them.

Again, if you knew history you would be able to put facts into perspective. You need to stop getting your information from Rosie O'Donnell and the Daily KOS and maybe bone up on your US history like brandon is doing.

[.tom]

i'll try to do this as respecfully as possible, tho you deserve the same insults you've dealt... and i'm not gonna spend a lotta time schooling you.

"its called defending the homeland and getting some payback for 9/11." the iraq invasion was not a response to 911...

"corporations dont manage invasions, the military does." have you heard of lobbyists? halliburton? wut about blackwater rentacops (clik)? at least you agree it's an invasion...

"if you fail to recognize that radical islam is the most dangerous threat on the planet, you are either one of them or you are sadly uninformed." who cares that a bunch of "rightious" dorx are shooting at eachother in the middle of that desert... they'd still be at it but, you and your beloved leaders had to go disturb them (for $$$) and now you want me to go fight your battle. answer is no. btw, "radical islam" has been running the alaskan pipeline for decades... bummer, huh.

"Guess what? US companies and congressmen also made profits in WW2. Huge profits. Its what brought the country out of the great depression you idiot. Profits are good." ok... let's send you and your relatives over there to fight and die for profit cuz mines aint that hard up.


try to work some anthropology studies in with history studies...

[siski]

This war is not about US empire building or corporate profits like you allege (although US companies and US congressman, democrat and republican alike, are making profits off of it-just ask Diane Feinstein D-CA), its primarily about defending our way of life from an enemy who has declared war on us.

I disagree with this, as far as I'm aware Iraq under Sadam Hussains regeme had no affiliation with any Islamic Fundamentalists. There were no weapons of mass destruction either?

In fact he kept a lid on all the fanatics. Its only since we invaded and overthrew the Bathist Party that they have all started fighting each other.

So with this in mind, why did we go over there? If you were sold on the fact that he was attacking our way of life then I'm afraid you were sold a lie or the people telling you this were incompetant and got it wrong.

Si.

[jdaug]

the iraq invasion was not a response to 911...

it most certainly was. america finally got tired of getting sucker punched by muslim fascists. 9/11 was the tipping point. iraq was another front opened in the global war on terror started after 9/11.

Like I said, Iraq may turn out to be a tactical blunder if we lose there. I never said saddam had anything to do with 9/11, but we all know he did have wmd at some point. our government made the decision that leaving him be was not worth the risk, based on what the muslim crazies had already shown they could do. Saddam was a muslim, and did have ties to radical islam, though not necessarily al qaeda (saddam is the guy who funded suicide bombers and their families in israel/palestine-if you dont call that tied to radical islam, then you arent being honest). Abu Nidal was the worlds most wanted terrorist before OBL came along. Guess what? he was living in Iraq before the invasion. Ansar al Islam is a radical muslim terror group that had been based in northern iraq for years before the invasion. So yes, Iraq did have significant ties to muslim terrorism. I dont care if they are Al Qaeda franchises or not, I group all muslim fascists into the same category, the bad category. we need to go after them all.

the war in iraq is actually a battle in the greater war on muslim crazies worldwide. again, a battle that may or may not prove to be a good idea in hindsight. like many battles in WW2 that turned out to be bad ideas (tens of thousands of american soldiers died in Operation Market Garden, an unnecessary battle in europe. tens of thousands died on tiny islands in the pacific which later turned out to be of no strategic significance). the difference was that in WW2 the country was united behind the idea of winning, and didnt sweat losing a few thousand soldiers here and there for the greater cause. we also didnt have traitorous individuals in the media and our government actively campaigning against our country hoping we will lose for their own personal gain.

have you heard of lobbyists? halliburton? wut about blackwater rentacops

yes what about them? i havent worked with lobbyists but i have worked with halliburton, KBR, and Blackwater when I was active. Halliburton and KBR manage some mess halls, service port-a-shitters, and do other stuff that soldiers dont have time to mess with. Blackwater is a rent a cop firm that protects VIPS, which is not a function of the military. Sometimes they kill people, accidentally or not. So what? They arent managing the war any more than you are tom. the military manages the war, with oversight by congress. lobbyists are scumbags who care more about their clients than their country, but if you think iraq was started to satisfy lobbyists then again you are sadly misinformed. war profiteering happens now like it did in WW2. get used to it. it has nothing to do with the underlying reason for going to war. maybe lobbyists for the defense industry secretly paid japan to bomb us in 1941 so that they could then get some fat contracts to build tanks. your argument is just as stupid.

who cares that a bunch of "rightious" dorx are shooting at eachother in the middle of that desert... they'd still be at it but, you and your beloved leaders had to go disturb them (for $$$)

If it was just muslim fanatics killing each other in the middle of the desert, then you would have a point. But what about 9/11? What about 7/11? What about Lockerbie? What about the Fort Dix 6? What about World Trade Center 1993? On and on and on. The problem is they arent just killing each other over there. They are killing Americans in America and around the world, and have been doing so since the 1970s. They are actively plotting right now to do more of the same. We didnt disturb them, they disturbed us. They arent my beloved leaders BTW. I generally hate the government. I dont trust them. any of them. I see the government like a necessary evil, kind of like a rectal exam.

and now you want me to go fight your battle.

who is asking you to go fight? are you being drafted? are you in the military and just dont want to go to war? please explain. last time I checked it was a volunteer military.

btw, "radical islam" has been running the alaskan pipeline for decades... bummer, huh.

How so? If thats truly the case, then thats a bad thing, but I dont know what that has to do with the discussion.

ok... let's send you and your relatives over there to fight and die for profit cuz mines aint that hard up.

I served my time. So have other members of my family. If you and your family dont want to serve, nobody is going to send you anywhere. like i said, its a volunteer military. we dont want people who dont want to serve, because they make bad soldiers. If you still think its all about profits, then there not much I can do to help you out. by the way, soldiers arent the ones getting the profits. soldiers make very little money for the kind of hardship they endure. benefits are pretty good though.

try to work some anthropology studies in with history studies...

what are you referring to? if you are talking about the ethnic and religious differences in the middle east that lead to sectarian violence, then yes I am aware of that. I realize that artificial borders were drawn by the west after the colonial period, which grouped very different peoples together arbitrarily. I realize that much of the middle east is still living with a 12th century mindset, where tribes and clans of different ethicity and different religious sects hate each other just for being different. Its a very bigotted and patriarchal part of the world. Not much we can do about that. Its not our job to bring them into the 21st century. its americas job to protect america and american interests.