Music Piracy

[nkujankuja]

Hey Gys

I see music going down the drain in South Africa through Piracy.

Do you have much Piracy in your country?

How do you think we can fight piracy completely?

Are we really going to watch our work going down the drain with no profit in our hands? please guys the topic is at large for everyone to throw his opinion.

[brandondrury]

Do you have much Piracy in your country?

Probably a case of typical American ethnocentrism, but I thought ALL the piracy was done in America.

How do you think we can fight piracy completely?

Fight it? None. Directly confronting a world with no scarcity is going to be tough. Shifting morals is required and that means church intervention. I'm not even sure the clergy is cool with electricity yet. It probably depends on how you scramble the words of Mark or Luke or Allah. That world is polarized so good luck.

Is it jujitsu where you use a guy's larger size against him? That's more the trick.

For one, I think the days of a band recording an album and charging $10-15 for a hunk of plastic are over. It's obvious the plastic is what everyone was buying as now that the plastic is irrelevant, the number of buyers has went way down. We can talk about memories of looking at album covers in our bedroom in 1981 all we want, but now we'd just be looking at the cool pictures on our phone while we take a piss at Walgreens. Even printed material is mostly irrelevant.

If I really wanted to make a living as an artist (which I don't), I'd have to be personally connected with enough people that they'd feel obligated to donate cash for my music. This will NEVER be as good of business model as the cash for plastic method of the 90s. Donations are nice, but everyone's got bills to pay. Being nice doesn't make you feel THAT good most of the time unless that person REALLY needs it. Radiohead doesn't need it. Screw 'em! Right?

People don't buy plastic music anymore, but they do buy tshirts, bumper stickers, and maybe even snow sleds. The point is to shift away from plastic music sales and maybe even come up with new, cool things people want to buy. KISS figured this out long before it was necessary. Being an artist is rarely about the music. Girls wanted to bang McCartney and Elvis since way back when. Becoming a character that demands a tshirt or bobble head sale is where it is at. I think the anti-celebrity mentality of the 1990s won't come back anytime soon.

The crappy thing is even in a digital world, to get a REAL connection with people you have to shake their hand. That means stupid live shows. BLA!

Brandon

[shackman]

Probably a case of typical American ethnocentrism, but I thought ALL the piracy was done in America.

Hey man. We may be small, but the Uk practically INVENTED music piracy. You guys just stoled it. (Stands as British National Anthem plays).

I think the anti-celebrity mentality of the 1990s won't come back anytime soon.

Don't bet on that. A beautiful sub-culture is growing here in Northern Europe.

[garww]

What worked for me is not producing anything desireable.

[brandondrury]

Hey man. We may be small, but the Uk practically INVENTED music piracy. You guys just stoled it. (Stands as British National Anthem plays).

I believe that the notion of the US pirating the concept of piracy is evidence of my point.

Don't bet on that. A beautiful sub-culture is growing here in Northern Europe.

Good point. I saw on a documentary YOU PEOPLE (Europeans) stomping a bunch of corn fields. I said, "Hmm, my apathetic American instincts don't get". So maybe in a world where there 20,000,000 dipshits "performing" on Youtube every day in t-shirts, one of them will meet some kind of critical mass in terms of making a living at this gig. We'll see. It would require Europeans to somehow find a "cool" needle in that haystack. Personally, I bet on the guy with pyro making a living with this gig. Maybe not.

What worked for me is not producing anything desireable.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Girl Punk]

Take my music, steal it, ask for it and I will give it. The internet is so saturated with music and to me its not even about stealing its about a shift in the market.
I agree that almost plastic is dead but I printed up a few small runs just because there are still some old school people that want hard copy.
But at this point with such saturation you are lucky if you can give it away. So many bands bitch and ask about how to get their music out there, you need to give it away
and with how accessible music is again you have to almost force people to give it a chance. I think there is a misconception about the impact about piracy on the different levels of markets.
Meaning that Avatar sill made billions and no pop star was at a shortage of cash and at the lower levels no one is going out of their way to steal pig squeal album and the only impact that could happen is that
some unknown band got some exposure and a new fan who might show up to a concert and buy a tee-shirt.

All my material is free as music should be, if you want a CD, its available.

[bobbybovine]

I totally agree with the give it away concept of today. Yes people love music and always will,however to make a living doing it you have to use your music to create YOUR BRAND. The music just sucks them into your world and with the internet and youtube YOU have total control of THAT world even if you have to give your music away. Is it easy? no but the opportunity today for a quick rise to profitable entertainment empire is far greater than ever before. Unfortunately it just isn't ALL about the music anymore. Of course if you LOVE making music, then the whole reason you are doing it is to play live anyway. So go play live, get some chics backstage, and sell some shirts for $40.

Bob

[garww]

The thing is, to my mind, many people don't have anything better to do. It's become part of their culture and not just with music. Napsters felt it was a entitlement written into the constitution/bill of rights, I guess.

[rook2c4]

Music piracy has become so ingrained in society, it's almost pointless to get mad anymore... it's almost like getting mad at the fact that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. You just have to find ways to work around it when distributing your music, or at least factor it in concerning your sales figures.

The only thing that could effectively contain digital piracy is for governments and internet gate keepers to put severe, curtailing restrictions into place on how the internet works, how data is transferred, and on individual privacy within the digital realm - which nobody really wants either, obviously.

On the other hand, I have noticed that illegal peddlers selling pirated CD's on street corners have become increasingly rare and practically a thing of the past; certainly the ease of acquiring music through illegal downloads from the internet has something to do with this!

[Girl Punk]

Music piracy has become so ingrained in society, it's almost pointless to get mad anymore... it's almost like getting mad at the fact that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. You just have to find ways to work around it when distributing your music, or at least factor it in concerning your sales figures.

The only thing that could effectively contain digital piracy is for governments and internet gate keepers to put severe, curtailing restrictions into place on how the internet works, how data is transferred, and on individual privacy within the digital realm - which nobody really wants either, obviously.

On the other hand, I have noticed that illegal peddlers selling pirated CD's on street corners have become increasingly rare and practically a thing of the past; certainly the ease of acquiring music through illegal downloads from the internet has something to do with this!

If you haven't been keeping up with the news its called SOPA and its a serious issue, if the bill were passed the government and contributing parties namely movie and record labels would have the power to shut your site down permanently with out warning. Godaddy has a huge boycott against it because its position on the bill even tho they tried to retract their support. Youtube would definatly be gone and your ISP would control the content you see, Basically china

I go back to its a different game and you either adapt or die, now a days you are lucky if you can get someone to check out your music for 2 sec and people are worried about people stealing it? Go ahead and hold on to your precious tracks and all you are doing these days is limiting your chance of getting a fan. Nothing wrong with printing up a few cd just for the hardcore people and throwing it up itunes and such to maybe help take a small chunk out of your investment. And please to all bands when you hand out your cd's after a show, sex sells so use a girl to hand em out to guys and you will find less of your cd's thrown around the parking lot

[wankerone]

Well I think it is a big huge problem. We sent six different DMCA take down notices to sites we found this past weekend. We got responses within 24 hours from four of them. So the illegal distributers take it seriously enough to have someone monitor the email. On a site with a counter it was like 4,000 downloads from four different files. We have over 130,000 views on youtube of our video, you can watch it anytime you want for free, you can listen on our facebook anytime for free, but if you want it an mp3 I do not think 99 cents is too much. as of last week we sold like 350 copies on itunes in the last month. That equals gas money.

Yes we are lucky that someone checks out our music for more than two seconds but it does not make a difference if you sell it or not in your popularity for the most part. It is just a matter of priority for the person who wants to have your music all the time. Do they spend eight dollars at chipoltle a couple of times a week or spend 99 cents on supporting something they like. The downloaders are not poor, I have given away plenty of music for free and i will keep doing it through facebook and youtube.

My precious tracks are Mine you can borrow them I want you to hear them and like them, but do not forget they are mine. I worked at recording them writing them and sweated the mix, shot the video, I see and hear every mistake in them, but if you want to download an mp3 99 cents please. If you want to see me play live in a venue $10.00 to $12.00 please at the door, how much of that do a see unless I am the promoter.

We thought enough about it to put it in an update video, we posted on the 31st. We havenot had amy negative feedback yet but fuck it if someone takes offense, we were pretty light about it.

As far as taking down of websites that illegally distribute, I do not have a problem with that, you have to monitor your website just like you would If you had a store on the street. I do not think it should be permenant though.

Wake up guys, the sixties was a longtime ago, If you keep the additude of give it away them you will fucked by the promoter or someone else you do not want making money off you, because they are ready to take advantage, just like the promoters and record companies did then. Yes give it away, but only to or through the way you choose to. If you give it away to just anyone anywhere then you are a slut, a whore gets paid. I would rather be a whore. Fuck you if you are hosting a site that is giving away my stuff without me wanting you to. You decided to do it, you get member fees, you get the nickles and dimes from ads you distribute the virus filled downloader software screw you. Go ahead write your own music. My content is mine.

I will take almost any endorsement (I am the heart beat of America for a new van), I do not care what ads are on my page on youtube, and hopefully I will get more popular and I can get a bigger piece of that advertisement and selling mp3 wont be as big a deal.

my two cents.

[luddekudde]

First things first.

I am Swedish and we invented piracy and are leading the way. You guys just pirated our piracy. And are killing ours to. Thanks to pressure from CIA we are now being watched and listened and can't speak on the phone in peace.

But I find that first post so stupid. You sound like the record labels, not dealing with the fact that the industry has changed and are trying to force the old ways on people instead of evolving as an industry. This is what's killing the industry.

I am a musician and I would love to go back to the old heydays where we could actually survive, but I am not gonna bitch about evolution. Instead try to deal with the situation.

I heard, not sure if this is entirely true but, that Coldplay let people download their new single of their website and people got to choose how much (or how little, or none) they wanted to pay for the single. They earned more than on their last album.

And also, for you who don't know about SOPA it's not a solution to any of our problems. It is a way for them to censor the internet and take our liberties away. We need to use the internet to our advantage, like many people suggested. They are using piracy as an excuse to rob us from our freedom. Just a side note.

Be innovative, not stubborn!

[rook2c4]

If you haven't been keeping up with the news its called SOPA and its a serious issue, if the bill were passed the government and contributing parties namely movie and record labels would have the power to shut your site down permanently with out warning. Godaddy has a huge boycott against it because its position on the bill even tho they tried to retract their support. Youtube would definatly be gone and your ISP would control the content you see, Basically china

I think you have somewhat misunderstood my post; I'm definitely not in favor of restricting the internet, or for government agencies working in behalf of corporate interests choosing which sites are permissible, and which are to be shut down. Stuff like SOPA has been going on for quite some time... back in the late 90's a few boneheaded congressmen where already rallying about taking severe measures to restrict access to and content on the internet, essentially rendering it completely government and large corporation friendly, but otherwise kind of useless.

Just recently I was having an interesting discussion with a friend, and we came to the realization that, in a few years from now, we may very well be looking upon this period as the Golden Age of the internet, a time when data flow was more or less unencumbered by government and access providers.

[brandondrury]

Unfortunately it just isn't ALL about the music anymore.

Any idea when it was ALL about the music?

I go back to its a different game and you either adapt or die

That's my take on it, too. The notion of applying 1994 standards to 2012 is absurd. It ain't gonna work.

For what it's worth, I've only know a few bands in decade as a recording guy who TRULY looked at what they did as a business. For everyone else it's a hobby. I don't see that as being a bad thing. I prefer it, personally. Nowadays I kinda like the idea of throwing it on Youtube (hopefully with a cool music video), emailing all your friends, and if it was that good it would have taken off. This may be flawed, but I just don't see any non-obtrusive way of doing it minus shelling out for mega advertising budgets.

The other method is indirect marketing, but that is just as much of a crapshoot as the in-your-face method.

Brandon

[m.jerrick]

I really hope that firm action can be taken against pirates and that artists get all that is owed to them.

[rook2c4]

I really hope that firm action can be taken against pirates and that artists get all that is owed to them.

There's a real problem determining how much a loss of revenue music piracy is actually causing.
For example, take a 15-year old kid who's downloading 20-50 tracks a day without paying for any of them. A rather common scenario nowadays. If pirated music had not been available, would this kid actually be buying anywhere near that many tracks... continuously? Obviously not. How many would he/she be purchasing? Hard to say; there's always the matter of sharing music with friends that needs to be factored in as well.

[garww]

You are more likely to see legislation and legal actions at the behalf of Sony rather than some artist. Maybe there shoud be something like a Drivers License for internet users ? And registered computers with license plates ! Also a Mothers
Against Dumb Downloaders - MADD.

[m.jerrick]

There's a real problem determining how much a loss of revenue music piracy is actually causing.
For example, take a 15-year old kid who's downloading 20-50 tracks a day without paying for any of them. A rather common scenario nowadays. If pirated music had not been available, would this kid actually be buying anywhere near that many tracks... continuously? Obviously not. How many would he/she be purchasing? Hard to say; there's always the matter of sharing music with friends that needs to be factored in as well.

Agreed, a kid will only download what is readily available to him. Cut off his supply and he will probably move on to something else.

[bozmillar]

I agree that the internet is over saturated with music. It's hard enough for me to get my own friends/family to listen to my music for free. As dumb as it sounds, I almost think that having iPods or other mp3 players make it harder to get people to listen to your music.

People who can't/don't know how to download pirated music also don't know how to download legal music from anywhere but iTunes. You can give them a download link, but downloading and dragging the file into itunes is too much effort, especially if it's a zipped up album that you have do download, unzip and then transfer to itunes.

People who do pirate music have an arsenal of every commercial song ever made, so why would they bother listening to non commercial stuff?

[luddekudde]

The music corporations are sad because they can't abuse and leech on artists anymore! They are the real pirates so thank god for the internet and pirating, otherwise those big corporations would still be controlling the industry (to an even bigger extent than they are)!!

[rook2c4]

I too agree that the internet is over-saturated with music.

Putting your music up on the internet, regardless how great the music is, will likely not get you very far. You're just another tree in a vast forest, with new trees continuously sprouting all over the place.

If the music comes with an awesomely unique and creative video, and you upload it on youtube (or equivalent site), then maybe, just maybe enough people with take notice so that you actually make a name for yourself and gain a fan base of sorts. It's still a long shot, because the music video needs to tap into visitors' enjoyment and appreciation such that they keep returning to it and ultimately pass the news onto others.

[A.Samuals]

Agreed, you would have to be something extremely special to make money via internet as far as music is concerned. Beiber was very lucky, many are not..

[brandondrury]

Beiber was very lucky

Oh, he's probably miserable like the rest of us.

Brandon

[A.Samuals]

Miserable and rich.

[kakeux]

I'm just curious why music is/should/could be taken differently that any industrial product. I mean, did you try to rip off the I-Phone design and put it over the internet? I don't think you will last long without having some pretty nice person knocking on your door...

Ok, music should be an art...but when I listen to some shit, I'm more thinking about shampoo than art. So it's a product, it has an owner. So every uses that are not allowed by the owner is a rip off....

Giving away music that is not yours is more or less like a rip off...

When you are working as an electronic engineer, you're getting paid for your creativity...why not as your musician? Imagine for a while that suddenly all the manager stop paying the R&D engineer....will they continue to do R&D for free? I don't think so... I think this is what will unfortunately happen to some musicians...not all...because I will continue to do music even if I had to pay for it (that's basically what I'm doing)....

The argument of some is: musician are now earning money from live gig, so doesn't really matters to earn money from selling music....well, i don't know how it works in other countries....but in mine, with a 5 members band, we should play 3 gigs a day, 365 days a year to make decent incomes...could be fun, but my liver will quit working before having done it for a year....

The other wrong message given by some is: we are famous, we give away our music for free....take the Radiohead example... it is too simple for them to pull out a new album and give it for free... I could do that easily if I own 10'000'000$....Harder to understand when it's your first album released, and that you're just another unknown artist that paid 10000$ to record it. But then the mass gets it as: "Even Radiohead is for giving music for free on the internet"...that's not true...So you end up with a pile of record noone will buy (except your familiy....close friends will ask for it for free)

With or without the internet, becoming a professional musician is just a matter of opportunities...wrong opportunities will lead you nowhere...good ones could lead you nowhere or not. Maybe talent has a little to do as well...but not all hit makers are talented (only talking about the performers)...

So to summarize my long shitty post, just ask yourself if in ten years you still want to hear good music or just listen to some shit (I'm just thinking at the moment about "Demolition Man" with Stallone...listening to advertisement would end up boring for most of us)...I'm againt DRM but I'm against ripping off.

Cheers!